Counterarguments to Leviticus 20:13

[Verto]

Originally posted by yavoon


I would be hard pressed to find a christian who still followed leviticus. that doesn't mean they don't believe anything in leviticus(their views could come from elsewhere and merely coincide w/ some leviticus views). but that the document is not an authority on what they should believe.

I did not mean to say Christians follow the Law of Moses set forth by Leviticus. But, those rules were coming from Christ, and as such still bear some import, even though not all of them are ones we are commanded to follow.

[Elok]

Just in passing, as regards the bit about, "why are we allowed to eat shellfish now," etc., I would attribute that to the part in Acts where Peter is commanded, "what my hands have fashioned you must not call unclean." See also, well, the entire letter to the Hebrews. Dietary and hygienic regulations are not some sort of prerequisite to salvation within the Christian faith, i.e. "there is no 'circumcised' and 'uncircumsized' within us, only the body of Christ," or some such. Maybe Ben knows the exact quote, but it's from St. Paul. Note that I'm not trying to join the fray, just answering the question about why some of the Judaic customs are relaxed.

To answer Curtsibling's questions,

1. Prayer. By Orthodox doctrine, theiosis; the reunification of the human mind with God. According to our tradition, the pre-fall human lived in a state of natural and perpetual communion with God. We say the nous (sort of the eye of the soul) was turned towards God, and illumined. The fall drove us into confusion and madness. Prayer is an attempt to get back in the habit of contact with God. It's significant that the New Jerusalem in Revelation has no temple. Church is only an aid to guide us back to our natural state.

A more prosaic answer might simply be that we need to communicate with the man upstairs.

2. Some of it was written as a direct dictation from God, e.g. Revelation, and on those there's no "proof" that would satisfy you. Much of belief is sheer gut instinct. The epistles, of course, were written as advice to other churches, and only mindful of what God would wish for them to say. In short, no "proof." But then I've never really had cause to doubt.

3. Presumptively that wasn't directed at me. I *did* give you my "don't call me a creationist" speech, right?

[Starchild]

It's quite clearly about damning bisexuals to eternal hellfire. I mean, not lying with man like one does with woman? Hello sweety...purebred homo here. I've never lain with a woman. Don't particularly want to. So how can I lay with a man like I lay with a woman when I don't lay women at all?

[Spiffor]

Wow, I thought many gays started off their sexual life in a conventional, heterosexual fashion. Are many of your fellows pure-bred gays as well, or did most of them have sex with the opposite sex in the past?

[Ben Kenobi]

OK, so which modern version of the Bible do you use?

Mad Viking:

It's further up the thread...

I use the NIV, because it is the version that my pastor uses.

I also find myself using the NASB, which the Catholics like as well.

[Starchild]

It varies. Some gays have a relationship with a woman to hide the fact they're gay/convince themselves they are/see what it's like. None of those options have ever appealed to me.

To be perfectly honest, the idea of sex with women makes me feel a bit quesy. it's really kinda gross.

So I'm a purebred. There are a few. But I'm the bestest.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Starchild
It's quite clearly about damning bisexuals to eternal hellfire. I mean, not lying with man like one does with woman? Hello sweety...purebred homo here. I've never lain with a woman. Don't particularly want to. So how can I lay with a man like I lay with a woman when I don't lay women at all?

I'm not sure whether this is a joke or not.

[Starchild]

To be totally truthful puddin', neither am I.

[Verto]

Don't be such a tease.

[MrFun]

Re: Counterarguments to Leviticus 20:13

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
I seem to recall that there was a thread on this a while ago, but I searched for it and couldn't find it.

I'm in a class on the Bible which includes a pair of homophobes who love bringing the infamous passage up. I'd like to be armed with a few counterarguments (from the Bible, otherwise the teacher probably will just break up the discussion and that will be no fun.)

If anyone has good counterarguments from the Bible, or knows where the old thread is, their help would be appreciated.

MrFun, I'm looking to you as the board's gay Christian to help me out.

When I have time to refer to my own copy of the Bible, I will get back to you.

[Berzerker]

1. Why do people have to pray?

Good question, even Jesus said God knows what we need without prayer. Better question, why do so many people feel the need to pray in public when Jesus condemned doing so as hypocrisy - don't do as the hypocrites who pray in the synagogues and on street corners so others will see their piety...

2. Tell me how the men who wrote the bible were acting on a god's orders, and not merely deluded.

Depends on what they wrote. Does the Bible contain information they could not have had? If so, from where did they obtain that information?

3. How many of you hold the creation theory as solid truth and not a morality tale?

You mean Genesis and not the interpretations of "creationists"?
I believe Genesis, correctly interpretated in accordance with Sumerian/Akkadian mythology, is accurate. And we have proof to support that proposal...

[Shogun Gunner]

Originally posted by loinburger

That makes sense, but the question still remains as to how homosexuals are showing more disrespect to God than are, e.g., those who eat shellfish, or those who have sex with a woman in the week following her menstrual cycle, etc. If homosexuals are not showing more disprespect to God than the other sinners listed, then I don't understand why so many people gets their ass tied in a knot over homosexuality.

loinburger: I'm laughing at "people get their ass tied in a knot over homosexuality" that just cracks me up!

In fact, your posts in this message show a great bit of humor.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Lev. 20:13 says not to sleep with a woman as you sleep with a man. well its different, since its a different hole.

[The Mad Monk]

Would you care to say that a third time? Some of our slower posters may not have gotten it the first two times.

[Ben Kenobi]

don't do as the hypocrites who pray in the synagogues and on street corners so others will see their piety...

Yeah, that's a really good passage. Christ says that they have recieved their reward in full from men. Praying behind doors, and out of sight, well then you recieve your reward from God. Which do you think is more beneficial?