Video of Today's suicide bombing - Jan 29th

[Az]

What being jewish has to do with spouting comments that show ignorance of the topic?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Azazel
I'll start my participation in this great thread by giving Generalissimo a dictionary, and giving Agathon some tissue to wipe that foam.

It's OK. I was being deliberately over the top in response to some of the previous comments.

I think the first thing that people must know about the conflict is that it is NOT about race. I mean, I don't think that Agathon could spot an arab person in Israel.

From the point of view of Sharon, it is about race. He has long been a proponent of "Eretz Israel" and a supporter of the settlers - and they in my view are engaged in a form of ethnic cleansing.

Israeli Arabs have long been complaining about being treated as second class citizens - but that's not the main point. What is, is that Rabin entered the peace process in favour of partition because he knows that demographics are not on the side of the Jews. In ten years Jews will be in the minority in the current territories controlled by Israel.

Partition is desirable for this bunch because it ensures the survival of Israel as a "Jewish" state. I have problems with race based states in general (except under certain well defined circumstances) but that's not the pressing problem here. The best thing for all parties in my view would be complete withdrawal of Israel from all the occupied territories and a very limited right of return. Anything else is bound to create too much trouble. On the subject of a race based Israeli state, no one is going to quibble if it keeps the peace, even if the notion of a state based on race is repugnant. What does annoy people is when attempts to preserve racial purity cause harm. Of all peoples in the world, the Jews should know this better than anyone else - yet here we have Jews who are quite willing to become the thing they profess to hate. Thank God there are some who still get it - like that Rabbi who stopped the bulldozers the other week. Hurrah for him and all who walk with him!!!

One of the most shameful aspects of this business is the way that opponents of the occupation are painted as "self-hating Jews". For a culture whose relgious practice is constituted in part by intepretation and debate, this is a disgrace. In fact the real Jews are the ones committed to peace - the others have abandoned their history (another big no no in their culture) and sided with the oppressors over the oppressed (again, another big no no).

However, Sharon has made it clear that he isn't interested in a fair solution. What he wants is a West Bank that is turned into Balkanized Bantustans. This is not much different from South Africa in my view. Or he wants transfer, which would be a major crime against humanity.

Sharon is a racist. The minister that the Arabs killed a while back was a racist too. He referred to the Palestinians as lice, in a scary echo of what Nazi officials used to call Jews. Sharon has done almost everything he can to undermine peace and provoke extremism while at the same time trying to blame Arafat, whom he has reduced to an irrelevance in Palestinian circles.

Sharon and all the other Likudniks are racist scum. The fact that he and his ilk have managed to manipulate Israeli public opinion (in various ways) into direct conflict with the entire Jewish tradition, which is one of peace, tolerance and empathy with the underdog, is a disgrace. Shame on him.

I don't like the suicide bombings, but that doesn't mean that I automatically jump to the Likud view of things. I don't like bulldozing people's houses either, but that doesn't mean I have to support Hamas.

If only one of the bombers could get Sharon. He's a large and slow-moving target. I'd crack open a beer if they did.

[Lord Merciless]

The pity is that democratic countries like Israel and Russia can no longer use more efficient methods.

[Alexander's Horse]

Suicide bombing is the culmination of 50 years of oppression. It's a cry for help, it's revenge, it's vengeance. It's young people who believe they have no future and no hope.

And the Zionists still don't get it?

Make a just PEACE now!

[Ned]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Suicide bombing is the culmination of 50 years of oppression. It's a cry for help, it's revenge, it's vengeance. It's young people who believe they have no future and no hope.

And the Zionists still don't get it?

Make a just PEACE now!

Alexander's Horse. If one looks at Ghandi or Martin Luther King, there are better ways to resist. Civilized people must condemn what the terrorists are doing without reservation.

[Alexander's Horse]

They are young people who have lost all hope for the future. Not much different from the Israeli kids they are killing and who are killing them.

It's obscene, the whole thing.

The Israelis and Pals should be able to share that land in peace.

Maybe it's up to the young people on both sides to break the cycle somehow.

[Ned]

What we need is a video game for the Israel-hating leftists to play. You are placed in command of Palestinian terrorists. You must recruit, plan and deploy homicide bombers into Israel. In the final stages of each mission, you play a homicide bomber who evades Israeli security and completes his or her mission by depressing the explosive-belt switch. After completing a successful mission you are treated to actual video of successful homicide missions from Israel showing in gleeful detail the mangled wreckage and bodies of Jewish scum.

Your strategic objectives are to prevent the leadership of the Palestinians from entering into a peace agreement with Israel. If you successfully destroy enough is Israeli civilians, you win the game when the European Union invokes severe economic sanctions against Israel for oppressing the Palestinian people thereby causing the Israelis to surrender to your organization.

[Zylka]

Oh but Ned! All of the Israeli people are in violation of The Geneva Charter! Let's not forget the magnitude percentage of "refugees" who were actually BORN IN/have anything to do with current Israel!

Shame on you. How can you not look at the whole picture, and blankly condemn suicide bombings?? Racist, racist!

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Ned
What we need is a video game for the Israel-hating leftists to play.

There aren't many of those Ned - there are more haters on the other side from what I see. But that's probably just my bias talking. Yes I have bias - so do you.

But haters on both sides should just back off and then maybe we'd get somewhere.

When you realise your enemy is your brother there is hope.

[Zylka]

Agathon. Would be nice if you patronize the druggy with some form of answer, Mr. Philosophy degree

Have you seen the status of Native Americans in the Canada you currently occupy? Would you like to tell me what you're doing here - why our absolute destruction, displacement, and current s* treatment of the "rightful owners" is any different?

Why are you living here, buddy? What's the difference? Would things change if the beloved "Geneva Convention" were retroactive inclusive of a "crime" which dwarves Israel?

I hope you realise YOU'RE the supposed scum of a MUCH bigger issue. Glad to have you as a guest in our mockery of native sovereignty - you evasive a*sshole.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Agathon
The emperor has no clothes. Every civilized country with a free press (i.e everywhere but the US) knows what is going on. Your government are scum and so are those who support them.

it's the US that doesn't have a free press?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by GePap
This came up elsewhere. Yes, I read the thread: Another fact-given that the palestinian population we are talking about is smaller than the Israeli population (since Palestinians outside the territories are not counted), given that more Palestinian civilians have died than Israeli civlians it means the Israelis hav killed a larger portion of the Palestinian population than the Palestinians of the Israeli population- what does that tell you?

As far saying : "The Israelis could have killed mroe Palestinian civlians but didn;t", that is a moronic arguements: in essence you would be saying "The Pals are war criminals! and see, the Israelis could be even worse war criminals than the Pals have been, but they haven't done it, so there!". Well, one crime does not excuse the other, so to argue that it makes Israelis morally superior for not being worse is a damned idiotic arguement.

YOU are making an utterly moronic argument. The POINT is that Israel exercises RESTRAINT and exerts at least a little effort to AVOID civilian casualties, whereas civilian casualties are the Palestinians' GOAL.

[Alexander's Horse]

some Palestinians

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Suicide bombing is the culmination of 50 years of oppression. It's a cry for help, it's revenge, it's vengeance. It's young people who believe they have no future and no hope.

And the Zionists still don't get it?

Make a just PEACE now!

Maybe the Palestinians won't let them, maybe?

And how does one "crime" justify killing innocent civilians?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
some Palestians

Duh. OBVIOUSLY we aren't talking about "each and every Palestinian", but rather the terror groups.