Video of Today's suicide bombing - Jan 29th

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Azazel

International law. As the occupier, Israel assumed repsonsibility for enforcing the peace, protecting human life and property, etc., just as the U.S. has in Iraq.

Well, but this isn't that simple. There are also Lebanese Christians that hold that territory, that claim sovereignity. It's not as if Israel has simply occupied the country, it has intervened in a civil war.

Dude, that's just semantics (and a little BS). It was an invasion, not an intervention. Israel was the real authority in Beruit and all points south. The Christian Phalagne didn't hold that territory, Israel did (and the PLO before them).

Because something like that would have gone right up the chain of command, especially as the soliders on the ground wanted to stop the massacre. Plus, from what I've read, Sharon was being updated as to the situation there.

So, why were they stopped in the end?

Because it was really making Israel look bad, even at the Reagan White House. It hard to justify your support for an invasion when the invaders are allowing a massacre to go on for days.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Zylka
Agathon. Would be nice if you patronize the druggy with some form of answer, Mr. Philosophy degree

Have you seen the status of Native Americans in the Canada you currently occupy? Would you like to tell me what you're doing here - why our absolute destruction, displacement, and current s* treatment of the "rightful owners" is any different?

Why are you living here, buddy? What's the difference? Would things change if the beloved "Geneva Convention" were retroactive inclusive of a "crime" which dwarves Israel?

1. The Geneva Conventon did not exist at that time, nor do the natives have the legal standing that others in similar situation (like the NZ Maori do). But that's only the legal question.

2. I'm all for doing something about past injustices to Native Americans - so I find it strange to be accused of the opposite. But there is an important rider to that, which is: don't do anything that will make things worse off overall. Sure we could return all stolen land on principle, but that would destroy the economy and harm millions of people, including those who we wanted to compensate. So we do other things...

If you read what I wrote you will see I'm quite prepared to endorse significant compromise because it would be a gross human rights violation and an economic and political disaster to forcibly move every Israeli - and where would we put them. Moreover a general right of return is out of the question for much the same reasons. Even if the Israelis are fundamentally in the wrong it's still lunacy to require the destruction of Israel and the forcible removal of Jews from the Middle East.

[Az]

Dude, that's just semantics (and a little BS). It was an invasion, not an intervention. Israel was the real authority in Beruit and all points south. The Christian Phalagne didn't hold that territory, Israel did (and the PLO before them).

This is NOT true. Niether Israel nor the PLO held or even could hold all that ground in a hostile enviroment ( and it was hostile for both Israel and the PLO ). There was no well defined administration or occupation in Lebanon, by no government, whether Israeli, Christian, Palestinian, or Syrian.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


What the hell are you talking about?

You realize that the site you linked to has much more stuff about the Palestinian mistreatment of the press than that of the Israelis, don't you? I quoted a reporter who says Palestinian artillery hit the building she was in.

Hence, the own goal pwnage.

[Tattila the Hun]

So, how long will it take the Israelis and Palestinians to kill eachother of? Maybe we can move along then...

I'm wating for the Hamas or someone to get their hands on an old soviet nuke and blasting it in Jerusalem. Maybe that would get them all finally to get their heads of their asses to see, that they are not alone there, nor will they ever be. Nothing creates peace more quickly than carnage... Hmmm, though it should have worked by now.
How was the state of Israel founded? It seems to have been the greatest practical joke in human history.
"Let's give them a dry patch of land with dosen different ethnic groups all hating each other, sit back, and enjoy the show."
Adolf is ROFLHAO...

To sum it up, they're all idiots.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse


Convenient but misleading.

I happen to believe that there are people of goodwill on both sides and the majority of people be they Israeli or Palestinian want to live in peace with their neighbour.

So do I, though I don't know if they are the majority. The fact is, though, that it's easier to just type "Israelis" and "Palesinians"

[Alexander's Horse]

These kids that do the bombing - it seems to me that the recruiters prey upon on young idealistic people with depression.

I'd like to know what role depression plays in the decision.

The people they should get are the ones who recruit, such a cowardly thing to do.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Azazel

This is NOT true. Niether Israel nor the PLO held or even could hold all that ground in a hostile enviroment ( and it was hostile for both Israel and the PLO ). There was no well defined administration or occupation in Lebanon, by no government, whether Israeli, Christian, Palestinian, or Syrian.

Sorry Azazel BUT:

The IDF controlled all movement into the camps. Had the IDF not allowed the Phalangist to enter (and the IDF had full power to do so), which they did, there would have been no massacre. And what was the point of letting armed militia of one side into a refugee camps filed with civlians from the other side? There was none.

Which is why Israel itself found Sharon indirectly responsible.

Begin's little whinning notwithstading, Israeli frces aided and abbeted the massacres that day, if only by providing the criminals full access and then doing nothing.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
I think it's a little funny that North Americans and Europeans believe that they understand anything at all about the Palestinian mindset.

And you do? Israelis do?

They certainly don't act as if they did.

[blackice]

Fact is, given the numbers of deaths, the Israelis are either sloppy and incompetent or simply don't care about non-combatant deaths.

Are you a nutbar? One side kills anyone the other tries not to, what stats are you refering to post em....

I dare you to come on lammer post em...

[Ned]

It is good to see Agathon and GePap posting something reasonable on the ME situation. I applaud you.

As to the "control access" bit about Sharon, let us put forth a hypothetical. Would Churchill have been complicit in America's warcrimes if Bomber Harris had been an American and it was the Americans who were weekly firebombing German cities at night? After all, he controlled our "access" to British airfields.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by blackice

Fact is, given the numbers of deaths, the Israelis are either sloppy and incompetent or simply don't care about non-combatant deaths.

Are you a nutbar? One side kills anyone the other tries not to, what stats are you refering to post em....

I dare you to come on lammer post em...

Reread the thread. The numbers are repeated several times.

[Jaguar]

You clearly are avoiding the fact that I caught you in an own goal pwnage.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
You clearly are avoiding the fact that I caught you in an own goal pwnage.

Not really. That statement was made that made that Siro had never seen any evidence of Israli troops deliberately targetting the media. I provided him with a link from a respected new program. I never said that the terrorists weren't also targetting the media.

[Alexander's Horse]

Do any of us want to see the young Israeli guys on this forum shot up?

I think not. We love you guys.

But I still think the Palestinians have a case.