How can you believe homosexuality is a choice, unless you're bisexual?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Asher -

Ah, the old "don't expose the illogic in my post, it was a joke" trick?

There was no illogic because I never said bisexuality was a choice. What don't you get?

You said people who consider the homosexual orientation to be a choice must be people who chose their orientation and that must mean they are bi-sexual. Now you never said that?

No, you still don't get it. My point is they are bisexual. But they "choose" to be heterosexual by only having relationships with the opposite sex, probably for religious or societal reasons. Because they felt they could choose to be with men or women, they assume the same is others for well. Thus why they call being homosexuality a choice, because they had a choice.

Get it yet?

[Zylka]

BWAAHAHAHAHAHA

[Agathon]

Zylka is a trisexual.

[Zylka]

My hand? It's been a lopsided triangle these past few!!

[Berzerker]

Asher -

There was no illogic because I never said bisexuality was a choice. What don't you get?

Your entire post was about choice and orientation:

I am always perplexed by people who insist homosexuality is a choice. Is heterosexuality a choice for them?

I am left with the conclusion that the only people who truly believe that homosexuality is a choice are bisexual...

See? If someone is bi-sexual, they're attracted to both sexes. So why is bi-sexuality a choice? Do bi-sexuals consider their orientation a matter of "choice"? And why on Earth would bi-sexuals who obviously find the same sex attractive look down upon homosexuals?

No, you still don't get it. My point is they are bisexual. But they "choose" to be heterosexual by only having relationships with the opposite sex, probably for religious or societal reasons. Because they felt they could choose to be with men or women, they assume the same is others for well. Thus why they call being homosexuality a choice, because they had a choice.

Get it yet?

But homosexuals do have a choice, many are fathers and mothers who later divorced to be true to themselves. Some remain married and faithful, so is that not a choice?





Oh btw, I got it the first time I read your post. One troll deserves another.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Berzerker
See? If someone is bi-sexual, they're attracted to both sexes. So why is bi-sexuality a choice? Do bi-sexuals consider their orientation a matter of "choice"? And why on Earth would bi-sexuals who obviously find the same sex attractive look down upon homosexuals?

Is it funny or sad that you still don't understand? I'm not sure yet. Perhaps I'm not veing verbose enough and assume too much of you.

You're reading the sentence too literally. Bisexuality (not bi-sexuality ) is not a choice. And I do believe many people are bisexual, but they choose to "be" heterosexual by only being with women as it's more acceptable. These people (NOT all bisexuals like you seem to think, just the ones that date women exclusively to try to be hetero) would seem to assume that since they could be attracted to both genders, and chose to be "heterosexual", that gays had the same choice but chose to be "homosexual".

That is the only reasoning I could think of to see how somebody could really think homosexuality was a choice -- that is, if they contemplated this themselves.

[Berzerker]

Is it funny or sad that you still don't understand? I'm not sure yet.

Let us know when the confusion clears.

You're reading the sentence too literally.

Should I be reading your mind instead?

Bisexuality (not bi-sexuality ) is not a choice.

Agreed, bi-sexuality (not bisexuality ) is not a choice.

And I do believe many people are bisexual, but they choose to "be" heterosexual by only being with women as it's more acceptable.

But that isn't heterosexual wrt orientation.

These people (NOT all bisexuals like you seem to think, just the ones that date women exclusively to try to be hetero) would seem to assume that since they could be attracted to both genders, and chose to be "heterosexual", that gays had the same choice but chose to be "homosexual".

But they are attracted to both genders. Why would they look down upon homosexuals given their orientation? That's where your "logic" falls apart...

That is the only reasoning I could think of to see how somebody could really think homosexuality was a choice -- that is, if they contemplated this themselves.

But that requires us to believe bi-sexuals look down upon homosexuals when they also share an attraction to the same sex.







You've been parsed

[Asher]

Originally posted by Berzerker
But that isn't heterosexual wrt orientation.

Heterosexual by practice, not by orientation.

I view sexuality as being different from who they actually have sex with. If they're sexually attracted to both genders but choose to only have sex with one gender, they're still bisexual in my books. Their sexual preference is different from sexual orientation in this case.

If you never have sex with anyone, does this stop you from being straight? Sexual practice is not the same thing as orientation. Similarly, some straight men have gay sex for porn videos but are still straight(!).

But they are attracted to both genders. Why would they look down upon homosexuals given their orientation? That's where your "logic" falls apart...

Because they're uber-Christians? Or homophobic? Or afraid of people's reactions if they found out this person was bisexual?

It's part of human nature. You know, it's like in elementary school when girls had cooties.

But that requires us to believe bi-sexuals look down upon homosexuals when they also share an attraction to the same sex.

NOT all bisexuals. I've clarified this several times now. I'm referring to bisexuals who chose to live a heterosexual life, while at the same time proclaiming sexuality is a choice because they could choose.

It's a very simple concept and I'm unsure why you can't grasp it. You're intentionally overcomplicating things, while at the same time constantly misinterpreting things and constructing strawmen even while corrected...

[Zylka]

Sexuality can indeed be a choice. but who exactly even argues it IS, anymore??

[Berzerker]

Heterosexual by practice, not by orientation.

Orientation is nothing more than attraction, by definition, bi-sexuals are attracted to both genders.

I view sexuality as being different from who they actually have sex with. If they're sexually attracted to both genders but choose to only have sex with one gender, they're still bisexual in my books. Their sexual preference is different from sexual orientation in this case.

Aside from the last part (orientation and preference are essentially synomynous), correct. But your post was to take a jab at people who don't view homosexuals in nice terms, so why would bi-sexuals be in that boat when they obviously share an attraction to the same sex?

If you never have sex with anyone, does this stop you from being straight?

Nope, because orientation doesn't require action.

Sexual practice is not the same thing as orientation.

Agreed.

Similarly, some straight men have gay sex for porn videos but are still straight(!).

Yup, and what is their orientation? Heterosexual.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Aside from the last part (orientation and preference are essentially synomynous), correct. But your post was to take a jab at people who don't view homosexuals in nice terms, so why would bi-sexuals be in that boat when they obviously share an attraction to the same sex?

For the last time, I'm not saying all bisexuals don't view homosexuals in nice terms.

*sigh*

I don't know how many times I can explain this if you still do not get it. I'm going to repeat myself one last time.

------

To me, the only way somebody can insist homosexuality is a choice is if that person was able to make a choice between homosexuality and heterosexuality themselves. The only way I can see somebody actually able to make that choice, is if they're at least somewhat bisexual. Therefore, the only case I can see for somebody arguing that homosexuality is a choice is if they were bisexual and chose to act like a heterosexual.

[Berzerker]

Because they're uber-Christians? Or homophobic? Or afraid of people's reactions if they found out this person was bisexual?

Fear of themselves? Sure, there are some people who are homosexual or bi-sexual who remain in the closet and who might even display an anti-homosexual sentiment, but to conclude that heterosexuals who think homosexuality is a choice are actually bi-sexual is illogical. They could be mis-informed, willfully ignorant because of their religious views, or something else, all without being bi-sexuals who made a choice to have sex with only the other sex. Besides, if they are bi-sexual, do they also believe they chose to be bi-sexually oriented? That was the implication of your argument... That orientation is a choice for these alleged bi-sexuals regardless of their practices...

NOT all bisexuals. I've clarified this several times now. I'm referring to bisexuals who chose to live a heterosexual life, while at the same time proclaiming sexuality is a choice because they could choose. It's a very simple concept and I'm unsure why you can't grasp it. You're intentionally overcomplicating things, while at the same time constantly misinterpreting things and constructing strawmen even while corrected...

Well gee whiz, it's a bit peculiar to complain about "NOT all bisexuals" when you effectively announced how all heterosexuals who consider homosexuality to be a choice are actually bi-sexuals. They could just be ignorant you know, or maybe they consider behavior outside of the "norm" to be a matter of choice and not something inherent. Obviously I don't mean all bi-sexuals, I'm referring only to alleged bi-sexuals who view homosexuality as a choice - you know, the group we've been discussing.

[Berzerker]

For the last time, I'm not saying all bisexuals don't view homosexuals in nice terms.

*sigh*

We aren't talking about all bi-sexuals, just heterosexuals who view homosexuality as a choice which you believe makes them bi-sexual. You established the context so why do you keep harping on that strawman?

To me, the only way somebody can insist homosexuality is a choice is if that person was able to make a choice between homosexuality and heterosexuality themselves. The only way I can see somebody actually able to make that choice, is if they're at least somewhat bisexual. Therefore, the only case I can see for somebody arguing that homosexuality is a choice is if they were bisexual and chose to act like a heterosexual.

Bi-sexuals don't make a choice between homosexuality and heterosexuality, they have both orientations. It doesn't matter if a bi-sexual chooses to have sex only with the other sex, they'd have to believe their orientation - attraction to both sexes - was a choice. So, while you presume that heterosexuality and homosexuality are not choices, your argument presumes that these bi-sexuals did choose.

[Kuciwalker]

I don't think Asher is claiming that they actually ARE bisexuals, but that they would have to be to be able to justify their statements.

[Asher]

You're no fun to debate with. Not only because you're as relentless as I am, but you apparently still don't understand the purpose of the post and its intent. At this point, I think it's fairly safe to say it'd be hopeless to continue *****ing at you.

You have left me stunned, and not in the good way.