Is Gibson a nazi!?

[lord of the mark]

spiff, ned, et al

There is no standard "Jewish" line on the events of the life of Jesus, at least as far as i know. Many Talmud rabbis refer to him as a sorcerer - apparently trying to reconcile NT miracle stories with the denial that Jesus was Messiah - but those are not legal opinions and have no official force on Jews of that or any later times.

Of coruse Jews do not accept NT as scripture, and so the are in the same position of looking for the "historical Jesus" as any secularist, or any Christian who does not privelege the NT as a historical source.

I would note that there a currently fashionable theory of Jewish history of that period indicates that the Pharisees were NOT the dominant Jewish group of the time, the Sadducees were. This runs counter to both the NT and Josephus (most important Jewish historian writing in the 1st C CE, but an interested party and sometimes unreliable source) . Also Pharisees are not "hypocrites" in the Jewish sources.

Some question about whether Christianity would really have been seen as a major threat at the time. Difficult to ascertain without alternate sources to NT.

There was a theory about the historic Jesus a few years ago seeing Jesus as a political leader of the Jews, which would account for Romans crucifying him. Closer to then current Jewish messianic notions as well. Not sure of current academic status of this theory - certainly many jews still beleive it, i think.

Basically we DONT know what actually happened since there are no good alternate sources to NT, and parsing out historically reliable from the NT is not easy. There are clearly VERY STRONG motives the early christians would have had to blame Jews and thereby absolve the Roman state. I suppose this fact is one Jews tend to reflect on more than secular gentiles do.

However what is of greater concern is the historical resonance of the "upon us and upon our children" line in the history of Jewish-Christian relations, and its relation to antisemitic violence.

I dont know how the film really plays things. Until its more widely released that wont be clear, and reserving comment seems wise.

[boann]

ok all religion aside......if thats possible.

its a movie about a book
a movie made to follow the books story line.
shall we censor everything so no ones offended?


don't go watch it... jezzz...


some of the same stupid logic went around
about Pearl Harbor.

its a MOVIE for goodness sake
its entertainment...maybe thought provoking
but still its entertainment

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I don't have a lot of faith in the ADL after the got caught spying on progressive groups in Califiornia.

they monitor groups where they think there may be antisemitism, or hatred being fomented. Across the spectrum. Quite alot of rightwingers dislike them for the same reason, IIUC.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by boann
ok all religion aside......if thats possible.

its a movie about a book
a movie made to follow the books story line.
shall we censor everything so no ones offended?

I dont care if somethings put out that offends me. happens all the time. Given the history of that particular book with respect to violence against my people, I will watch carefully what happens when it is released.

And who exactly is calling for censorship?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Or if we never mentioned the Inquisition to not remind Christians of their dirty work?

is there a jewish relgious text that quotes Germans or Spaniards saying "may their blood be upon us and upon our children" is there a tradition of inflammatory sermons based on such a text, followed by the murder of Germans and Spaniards?

[Sava]

LoTM: my conclusion is that everyone is evil

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap


Oh, come on..first of all, what other "Gibson" is there, unless you are from Australia, but then why would I be talking about it?

I like mytery in my threads. Saying "Fundamentalist Catholic Australian Actor Mel Gibson's new movie about the last few days of Christ's life called the Passion is being labelled by prominent Jewish Leaders in the US as anti-semitic, what do you think?" just does not work.

the problem of course is that there are many people who it would be absurd to call Nazis, who are antisemites. And it is a widespread current meme that whenever someone criticizes the Jews, those mean Jews call them "nazis". Further it is possible for a non antisemitic person to nonetheless create an antisemitic work - evidence that Mel Gibson is a nice guy with lots of Jewish friends would not in principle exonerate the work.

None of which is to say the film is antisemitic. But it might be.

[Cookie Monster]

The Jews wanted Jesus dead because they claimed he was blasphemous. The Rabbis took great offense of his claims that he was the son of God. The Romans, specifically Pontius Pilate, heeded the Jewish calls for Crucifiction and enforced the decision.

Now do I hate Jews because of this? No, I think it's silly to hate them for Jesus' death. Jesus himself said as he was dying on the cross, "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do."

[GePap]

Shees: the title is made to be controversial and get people to look at the thread. The only one who got it was cali, it seems. Shees again.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap
Shees: the title is made to be controversial and get people to look at the thread. The only one who got it was cali, it seems. Shees again.

Gepap - i thought you were an atheist. Why is this a topic of any particular interest to you?

[GePap]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Gepap - i thought you were an atheist. Why is this a topic of any particular interest to you?

What does being aethist have to do with this?

One does not have to believe in the monotheistic God to care about interfaith issues.

[Caligastia]

With regard to the topic, no, I don't think Gibson is a nazi. I find the suggestion that he might be a bit silly to be honest.

[Caligastia]

I haven't seen the movie, but I'd hazard a guess that certain people are being over-sensitive. The fact is that jewish leaders were responsible for Jesus' crucifixion.

[Edan]

Originally posted by Caligastia
With regard to the topic, no, I don't think Gibson is a nazi. I find the suggestion that he might be a bit silly to be honest.

The only one who suggested that Gibson is a Nazi is Gepap, and then, only to try to spark controversy and interest in this thread.

So yes, it is a bit silly.

[Agathon]

I'd just like to point out Mel Gibson's history of making extremely anti-English films in which the English are portrayed as fascists, sexual perverts, and evil sadists.

There were no mass complaints about this, although three of his films are notoriously anti-English: Braveheart, The Patriot and Gallipoli.

It's well known Mel doesn't like the Poms.

PS. He also isn't fond of gays.