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Roe v Wade: an interesting article from Philosophy Now.
Originally posted by Whaleboy
Gentlemen, where should I stand on abortion? Convince me!!
that it should be the state's right to choose. Wouldn't then it make all of the Women who feel oppressed move to choice states, and impoverish anti-choice states?
he has proven to me many times that he is a racist. his marrying a black woman occured after a several year long relationship (not wanting to actually go through with marrying the women I guess?). he may just be trying to prove to himself he's not racist.
Of course. It couldn't possibly have been his wife's decision not to get married, because like the white racist che is, he made sure to lobotomize her.
You just keep digging that hole, Speer, deeper and deeper....
Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.
...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915
he has proven to me many times that he is a racist. his marrying a black woman occured after a several year long relationship (not wanting to actually go through with marrying the women I guess?). he may just be trying to prove to himself he's not racist.
So everyone that has a long term relationship with a black woman before marrying her is racist? How bizarre...
Isn't it possible he had different reasons for waiting. In fact I seem to remember him giving them, and to my memory they didn't include anything like "I wanted to make her wait so she would know I'm her white master."
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Speer, you're repulsive. And frankly, everyone here knows you're one of the biggest bigots around. So why don't you shut up about someone whom you don't even know? Frankly, I'm shocked the mods didn't fry your ass over the last instance of this. Hopefully they will now.
That's not quite his argument, which is logically valid. People who do make that particular mistake do so unreflectively.
I didn't get that sentance.
Do you agree with his arguement? Did i get it wrong?
Can you explain why is his tautology claim correct?
Sure. This is the argument?
A woman has the right to control her own body. Though the reasoning is much older, the feminist author Susan Brownmiller attributes the precise wording to Patricia Maginnis, founder of an illegal abortion referral service in California in the years prior to Roe. As a defense of abortion rights, however, the argument is either demonstrably false or logically meaningless. Even if we grant the contentious point that the fetus is part of the woman's body, it's simply untrue that American citizens, male or female, exercise absolute sovereignty over their own bodies. If that were the case, not only would 49 states have to join Nevada in the legalization of prostitution, they would also have to permit the selling of internal organs for transplant - which would in turn warrant the bodily exploitation of poor people by wealthy people. For good reason, therefore, there's no right to absolute bodily sovereignty. However, if we take Maginnis's words in a weaker sense - specifically, that a woman's right to control her body extends to include the right to terminate a pregnancy - we're left with a tautology: a woman should have the right to an abortion because a woman has the right to an abortion
Point 1. The pro-lifers assert that a woman has absolute sovereignty over her own body. They infer from this that she has a right to abort because denying her that right would be to deny her sovereignty over her own body.
Point 2. It's simply false that people have absolute sovereignty over their own bodies. He points out that organ selling is immoral and that is enough to invalidate the absolutist claim (if you don't buy the organ selling example it's pretty easy to come up with others).
Conclusion 1. We are left without a notion of what sovereignty over one's body extends to.
Point 3. Someone might assert that sovereignty over one's body extends to the right to have an abortion.
but
Conclusion 2. But without giving some independent reason as to why it extends to having the right to have an abortion, the pro-lifer is basically asserting that women have a right to an abortion because they have a right to an abortion. This is called by philosophers begging the question since the conclusion is essentially the same as one of the premises.
It's a tautology because it's just repeating the same claim without actually drawing an inference. It's like saying "triangles are triangles because they are triangles". If I say "I conclude that women have the right to an abortion from the fact that they have a right to an abortion" I have just repeated the same claim twice instead of providing an argument.
Why don't you apologise to Che for calling him a racist?
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Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Speer, you're repulsive. And frankly, everyone here knows you're one of the biggest bigots around. So why don't you shut up about someone whom you don't even know? Frankly, I'm shocked the mods didn't fry your ass over the last instance of this. Hopefully they will now.
Ah! TCO... The man who regularly sends me PM's asking me to intervene to teh mods to have him unbanned. Isn't that like asking a drowning man to save you from being drowned or something
Agathon - having read that again, I realized the integral sentance I missed :
However, if we take Maginnis's words in a weaker sense - specifically, that a woman's right to control her body extends to include the right to terminate a pregnancy
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