Communist Education?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


I don't doubt there are areas that should not be privatised. and I agree that Canada, as a society is more efficient than many other places. I just think there are ways we can improve our health care system.

Yes, the state does pay promptly, but it also pays too freely. Even Canada's system has plenty of waste we can trim.



It's an interesting question, as to which is more efficient, but we have to look over the long run.

For example, as a student I benefit greatly from the collective power of all the students having to pay for a bus pass. In turn, this increases the ridership for the buses, making public transit more competitive when compared to other forms of transportation.

The problem is that this arrangement does not cater well to innovation, nor does it adapt well to changes in circumstances.

I don't see why this is so. If public transport starts to suck people will go elsewhere and the government will end up holding the can.

Anyway, I'm off to watch the Leafs play the Flyers. Should be a lot of biffo.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yeah, I got a party later on tonight.

So happy to finish off my medical ethics paper.

If I'm lucky I might get published, if not, there will still be some people interested in the essay.

[Ned]

I see none of you commies answering the question about productivity. All you ever do is talk about state takeovers of private business, etc., etc., etc., when the goal as stated is to achieve so much productivity that everything is relatively inexpensive.

State monopolies lead to massive inefficiency and to relative poverty because they eliminate competition. Insistence on state monopolies at the expense of productivity and wealth suggests that communism is insincere.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
I see none of you commies answering the question about productivity.

Didn't see it, sorry.

Remember, Ned, eficiency is a matter of measurement. It depends upon what you're measuring. So, American health care may be very efficient at making a profit, but from a measure of dollars spent, it is exceedingly inefficient, because so much of it is spent on overhead rather than on actual health care. Canadian heath care is very efficient at serving everyone, but it is inefficient when it comes to seeing people promptly. If the goal of a socialist business was to ensure everyone had jobs, then it will seem very inefficient to those who want to make profits.

Lemme go look for your prodctivity question.

edit: Looking back, I think I did answer it. You might want to re-post the question.

[Ned]

Well, Che, let's just put it this way. Massive production and efficiency will eventually free everyone from "want." That is the holy grail. It seems that communists seem to lose sight of the holy grail to the extent they adopt policies advocate policies that lead to inefficiency or poverty. State monopolies are never as efficient in producing goods and services as are businesses that compete. It seems to me that communists are not being sincere to the extent that they advocate these kind of policies while rejecting everything else.

The ChiComs are showing the way, are they not? They are junking state monopolies in favor of private businesses for the very purpose of raising the average standard of living. China should be the example that all communists follow, IMHO.

[chequita guevara]

I think the PRC may be adopting a policy of letting the capitalists build up China in order to achieve socialist goals. We have to keep in consideration that the Chinese proletariet did not become more than 50% of the population until less than ten years ago. China has simply not been industrialized enough to achieve socialism. Since China rejects international revolution now, they only other way they can increase productivity is to give incentives to capitalists.

Consider that it's probably easier to keep an eye on a couple million capitalists than half a billion workers. This is why I think the CCP didn't create "socialist"-enterprise zones, where workers would be freed from the party bureuacracy and allowed to experiement and innovate. I would have really liked to have seen that experiment.

I have a fantasy about getting Castro to allow such an experiment in a small section of Cuba, and see what unleashed workers can do.

Freeing people from want isn't an end in itself, but actually a means to an end. The real end is to free people from the necessary distractions of the world (ensuring shelter, survival, food, etc.) and allowing people to learn and play and create and to develop our full potentials as humans. Imagine having the free time to take classes the rest of your life, while still being able to produce enough to feed you and yours, and keep the world clean and beautiful and still having time to relax. That's the ultimate goal.

Disagreements are on the best way to get there.

[Ned]

Well, communists need to be more flexible. The US is actually approaching the ideal state that communism envisions. It would be interesting if communist would see the US as good, rather than evil. That certainly would change most Americans attitude about communists.

[chequita guevara]

Well, that whole war-mongering, screwing the poor thing would have to stop.

[chequita guevara]

The original contact lenses were invented in Communist Czechoslovakia. If you wear contact lenses, you owe that to us commies!

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by GePap


Somethign like this does not get started because of "kings", and such a system existed prior to the large political systems you need for anyone even to be called a king. So I have no idea were you pulled out the notion that this was becuase a king might start a war.

Firstly I never said king, monarchy, or espoused any form of government or level of poltivcal system.

Secondly any example you use to try espouse the altruistic nature of man and his need to create social constructs can just as easily be shown to have more dark and sinister motives.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The original contact lenses were invented in Communist Czechoslovakia. If you wear contact lenses, you owe that to us commies!

Really??

I wear a soft contact lens in my left eye (no external lens in right eye).

[VetLegion]

I was partly educated in communism. Till the age of 10. I still fondly remember some of the indoctrination . Being introduced to Pioneers (kid organization) and swearing an oath to protect the brotherhood and unity of Yugoslavia and it's peoples *sigh*, I did it at the age of 7 or 8. We broke the oath later

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Efficient in everyone has access to it, not efficient in actually giving people quality of service.

On what basis did you make such an assertion?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Agathon
Remember that this is expressing a probability, not a certainty. It's quite likely that a lot of our scientific beliefs are wrong, because we don't yet understand everything as is evidenced by the lack of a grand unified theory.

Then the statement should have been expressed in a probabilistic way.

At any rate, sciences are never right or wrong. They are just more or less accurate.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I think the PRC may be adopting a policy of letting the capitalists build up China in order to achieve socialist goals. We have to keep in consideration that the Chinese proletariet did not become more than 50% of the population until less than ten years ago.

They still are not. Peasants still are the majority, somewhere between 70% - 75% IIRC.