AP: Dean had his OWN secret energy group.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Amazing... they did the same thing with the recession... and the dot.bomb age. I really liked it when somebody on this board blamed the AOL-Time Warner debacle on "Bush's refusal to enact the anti-trust laws", conveniently forgetting that the merger was announced in March 2000 and finalized in January 2001.

Yep, and they complained about Republicans blaming everything on Clinton. This just takes the cake with Bush.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I don't know. There are a lot of Dean supporters who are mad at the Dems too. If Dean goes down to dirty tricks, they may boycott the Dems in the general elcetion.

Nader in 2004.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Ned
1) Anything done through the UN will not have the Death Penalty -- which IMHO makes the Hague and the ICC permanently useless for trials involving War Crimes or Crimes against Humanity, as these offenses desperately require the Death Penalty to provide an effective deterent and punishment.

Huh? What's wrong with Life Imprisonment? That seems barbaric enough to me.

2) 9/11 was a crime agains the United States. We should have the first opportunity to try and execute the bastard.

Well, logically, an impartial party should first ascertain if "the bastard" is actually guilty and of what "the bastard" is actually guilty.

Dean's statements on OBL (and for that matter, Saddam) are little more than OUTRAGEOUS.

They do have little low-brow appeal. Meh.

[Imran Siddiqui]

an impartial party should first ascertain if "the bastard" is actually guilty and of what "the bastard" is actually guilty.

So if a foriegner commits a crime in Canada some impartial country (like the US, say) should try the person?

Don't think so .

If OBL is captured he should be tried in the US. His criminal act happened there.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

So if a foriegner commits a crime in Canada some impartial country (like the US, say) should try the person?

Don't think so .

If OBL is captured he should be tried in the US. His criminal act happened there.

I don't think the US would be doing anything wrong if Bin Laden was tried in America. But, remember, they were all too eager to create an international coalition against terrorism. Letting The Hague do the job would be a strong move in favor of international justice and multilateralism, which could be a nice thing to do after the Iraq fiasco.

Anyway, since OBL's crimes probably range in the "crimes against humanity area", the court's ability to judge is more important than its location. And in this case, it's the Hague that gets the edge. Would I mind if a war criminal who commited his crimes in Canada (*cough* Pierre Elliot Trudeau) was tried outside? Not really, as long as the prosecutors and the judges are credible, and the process receives international approbation.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

If OBL is captured he should be tried in the US. His criminal act happened there.

I'm sure there are quite a few countries with a bone to pick with him. He's been behind more than 9/11.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
the court's ability to judge is more important than its location. And in this case, it's the Hague that gets the edge.

How so? Are US courts incapable of judging crimes against US law?

[JohnT]

Letting The Hague do the job would be a strong move in favor of international justice and multilateralism, which could be a nice thing to do after the Iraq fiasco.

You don't understand... we don't care. Americans want the guy dead and we will balk at any whiny-assed attempts to stop us.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Verto
I'm sure there are quite a few countries with a bone to pick with him. He's been behind more than 9/11.

Besides, has there been any serious inquiry proving him responsible for all Al-Qaeda attacks? I mean, was it proven that all these attacks were indeed the action of Al-Qaeda? Maybe yes, maybe no, I don't know.

But I sure think it would be better if you're sure you're chasing the real culprit, rather than a symbol.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by JohnT

You don't understand... we don't care. Americans want the guy dead and we will balk at any whiny-assed attempts to stop us.

Don't worry, I do understand this and don't expect OBL to be judged outside of America anytime soon.
But claiming that "you want the guy dead" has nothing to do with justice anyway.
Just remember that Dean's comments show he is much more diplomatically clever than Bush will ever be. It does take courage to go against most of your citizens' will to make a move that will only have long term, electoraly insignificant though necessary benefits.
Still, even if Dean is elected (doubtful), the public pressure will be too strong an he'll have to submit.

[JohnT]

Unless you're a conspiracy theorist given to wild extrapolations, OBL admitted a number of times in the 12-2001 video that there was an operation, it was his operation, and that he was worried about security leaks. I quoted portions of it earlier in this thread, if you don't want to Google.

[JohnT]

Just remember that Dean's comments show he is much more diplomatically clever than Bush will ever be.

Given that the man isn't in power, they show nothing of the sort. If he's stupid enough to be playing to an audience that doesn't vote, that's his dumb mistake.

[Drake Tungsten]

Dean is looking more like Bush every day. It's funny how the pinkos are tying their hopes to Bush's political clone...

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by JohnT
Unless you're a conspiracy theorist given to wild extrapolations, OBL admitted a number of times in the 12-2001 video that there was an operation, it was his operation, and that he was worried about security leaks. I quoted portions of it earlier in this thread, if you don't want to Google.

I know you don't like me debating... but remember, unless an independant court testifies these recordings, one can have its doubts.

If someone is willing to hand them the records, how come he won't disclose where he is hiding... even for a $25 millions reward? And BTW, it is possible that OBL claimed involvement just to stir up his partisans. I reiterate my point: claiming your "guilt" is not a good proof, unless you are pleading it in a trial.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by JohnT
I quoted portions of it earlier in this thread, if you don't want to Google.

Thanks for the quotes