AP: Dean had his OWN secret energy group.

[JohnT]

Unless my glasses are totally smudged, so much so that I'm misreading my posts, I'm pretty sure the last post of mine begins with...

"And, as a personal opinion..."

Let me quote Che earlier this thread:

Better to let it all hang out than to hide them and pretend you're objective.

and your response:

Exactly!

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, GePap. But not in your world, apparently.

[GePap]

Originally posted by JohnT
Unless my glasses are totally smudged, so much so that I'm misreading my posts, I'm pretty sure the last post of mine begins with...

"And, as a personal opinion..."

Let me quote Che earlier this thread:

Better to let it all hang out than to hide them and pretend you're objective.

and your response:

Exactly!

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, GePap. But not in your world, apparently.

God catch! Yes, you prefaced it by saying it was your opions. I was wrong..(but hey, I was on a roll..or is it Trolls? nah, roll.

[JohnT]

I'm a beyatch that way... I remember what people write and throw it back in their faces at opportune (for me) times.

[GePap]

Originally posted by JohnT
I'm a beyatch that way... I remember what people write and throw it back in their faces at opportune (for me) times.

I don't mind- at least that is a form of debate, as opposed to simply arbitrarily declaring the other person wrong, and posting an opinion as 'proof' of that.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Hey, hey... che isn't even here!

[JohnT]

By the way, Daniel Yergin wrote one of the best business/industry histories I've ever read (and I've read lots of them - now I'm going through three Enron books): The Prize: The Epic Quest for Money and Power, an near-900 page history of the global oil industry.

[TCO]

That is a great book. I read it right before interviewing with Exxon...

[JohnT]

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
DD: Apparently the left can. Hatred for Bush makes them lose their sight .

Um -- I hate Bush's policies, and I still agree with your logic and reason.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You're in the center... stop trying to pass yourself off as a lefty .

[GePap]

My hatred of Bush is based on his policies, and it does not blind me to anything.

Fortunitelly, I have the "power" of making distinctions- given that I don't live in a black or white world.

Oh, and on Dean's other comments:

People critizice him for saying that catching Saddam has not made us safer-
Does anyone have any proof catching him has made the US safer? I have seen none at all given, and things in Iraq are going "normally" for this occupation. And the gov. is saying the threat from Osama is as serious now as on 9/11-So I fail to see how this is a Dean goof, as opposed to an opinion that runs counter to the line war supporters want to sell.

And his 'infamous' Osama Comment- if Osama was caught alive, would he not be given a trial? With evidence having to be brought against him by prosecutors, be they be military or not? Then how in the world is Dean wrong for basically saying he would begin this trail with the assumption of innocence, as he should, that being one of the basic American values?

[JohnT]

Problem with the "assumption of evidence" is that OBL himself has taken credit for the planning and execution of the attacks, in the video of December 2001. Again I quoted excerpts of it earlier in this thread, and even if, legally, these tapes might not constitute a "confession", to most Americans (including I), they do.

Dean is looking to get elected. People are going to hear him question OBL's guilt, while at the same time remember that OBL said that the responsibility was his. They're going to wonder what the hell is he smoking and why anybody that foolish should be elected.

In regards to OBL's trial, yes he would get one, no doubt about it. However, most Americans would demand that he get tried in a court where the Death Penalty is a option, and they would not support a candidate who doesn't care what sort of punishment OBL gets. Dean stated that it doesn't matter to him who tries OBL, but it matters a lot to us.

Again, it's all about getting elected. If Dean is playing to people who don't and can't vote, that's his stupidity. Why should he care if the Europeans (or whomever) think he's more "diplomatic" than Bush - they don't vote.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You're in the center... stop trying to pass yourself off as a lefty .

I consider myself a moderate liberal -- it's damn close to the center.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ming
is a bad situation because no proof of quilt has been produced... yet you then blast away with no proof either.
Kind of being two faced... isn't it

So I'm two-faced. My two faces are better than most people's one.

Seriously though, innocent untuil proven guilty only applies to criminal cases. So far, no one's said Cheney did anything illegal, only unethical.

It may not be fair of me to start with a presumption of guilt on the Administration's part but given: they lied about their tax cuts, they lied about the damage to the White House by ex-Clinton staffers, they lied about the Artic Wildlife Refuge, they lied about Iraq seeking uranium, they lied about Iraqi contacts with AQ, they lied about missile defense, they lied about Clinton's anti-terrorism plan, they lied about the Education bill, they lied about Social Security, they lied about Bush's problems at Harken, they lied about Cheney's involvement with Haliburton, etc., at a certain point you just have to demand proof of innocense on the Admin's part.

These people aren't conservatives. They are corporate crooks who are using conservatives to get what they want. The Republican Party sold its soul, and didn't get a very good deal for it either.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MrFun
Makes sense to me -- Dean is getting all huffy and puffy with Cheney doing the same thing that he himself did.

I'd like to see the full text of speechs where Dean did that, and not just some quotes removed from context, like the Repugs did with the Wellstone memorial.