What do you think is the baddest ass piece of military hardware?

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Serb

The Harrier is a vertical take-off fighter. It was created in 1978. First Russian VTOF (Yak-36) was created in 1963. So, who copied and who failed?

LIES!!!

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6290/testbed.htm

First flight 1953, admittedly teathered. The question here is not who had the first operational aircraft - the question is WHO CAME UP WITH THE FIRST DESIGN AND WHO COPIED IT????

Originally posted by Serb
Su-30 isn't a VTOF. It can't can't perform a vertical take-off. It doesn't rotate entire engine to change the vector of thrust, but just small part of it (I don't know english word for this part an atomizer perhaps?). Anyhow, Su-30 and Harrier are absolutely different planes.

Agreed. Harrier is best thought of as STOL/V - vertical take offs limit payload and cost a lot of fuel.

[el freako]

Originally posted by Joseph
At the end of the Soviet Union we had about 270+ million. So you can call it close, but we still had 40 million more.

If by 'we' you mean the USA then you are wrong.

Popualtion in 1990:
United States: 255.7m
Soviet Union: 284.3m

(source: United Nations

[Verto]

Originally posted by Zylka
How dare the lack of pictures in this thread. And shame to all for not at least mentioning the M270 MLRS; about as frivelous as it gets for modern ground artillery

It WAS mentioned.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by el freako


If by 'we' you mean the USA then you are wrong.

Popualtion in 1990:
United States: 255.7m
Soviet Union: 284.3m

(source: United Nations

I trust the America census first, and screw the UN.

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Joseph
If you said it happen, I will buy it. However if we did loose a tank to an T-72 why did not the new boys report the sh!t out of it.
Gulf War 1. The US Marines with our old M-60A3 take on the Republican Guard at the Kuwait Airport with T-72s, T-64s, and a few T-80s and kill every one without a lost to the Marines.

Gulf War 2. Just outside of Baghdad three or four M1A2 and about six or so M2 Bradley's take on nineteen T-72s and kill everyone without a lost. Even the Bradley kill several T-72.

This did happen. I saw the tank crew that was in the tank when they got hit while watching the POWs on the history channel when they were having yet again anther programm about the Abrams M-1 tank.

Frist I do think that the M1A2 tank is the best tank in the world. But the Russian made tanks do come close, and for a long time before the Abrams came out they were ahead when it comes to tanks.

One of the main reason is that the Iraq army was crap. They could not fight togather as a unit. They lacked the intelligence the US had. Also like I said before their tanks did not even see the Abrams tanks because they did not have night vision or thermal vision. Thus the US tanks could see the Iraq tanks even before they became vissiable to the eye. Also the US had air support. THe Iraq army did not.

That is why we crush Iraq so easily.

Gulf 1. Every Iraq aircraft that came up to fight was shot down without any looses to our side.
Gulf 2. None came up to fight.

Kosovo, Bosnia and area. We had a few fights and kill everything that came up to fight.

F-14 was designed in late 67/8, first flight was Dec. 70, enter service in 74. The plane will be 30 this year.

F-15 was designed in 70, first flight was in July 72, enter service Nov 74, will be 30 years old this year.

F-16 First flight, Jan. 74, enter service Aug. 78. It will be 26 years old this year.

F/A-18 Started as the F-17 and after F-16 won, was redesigned as the F/A-18 for the Navy. First flight F-17 June 74, as F/A-18 Nov. 78, enter service Nov. 80. It will be 24 years old this year.
Note. We are now producing the F/A-18E/F model now so the F-14 can be retired. The E/F model are almost a new plane.

Well they are good planes, but the airforces that we have faced are laughable to even compare them the US airforce. Iraq and Bosnia had for the most part no airforce to speak of. One aircraft carrier of ours could controll their entire airspace. These nations can't even afford the spare parts to keep the few jets they have in the air. Also the US airforce has Radar planes that could lock on to fighters, thus the US fighters could fire undected and not warn the other fighter they firing at.
Also if the air is field with our planes and they are stupid enough to send a couple of their own fighter planes up, I would expect them to be shot down rightaway.

In recent times we have not come face to face with a good airforce, let alone land army. The Gulf wars were one sided to begin with. If we had to go to war with a much more capible nation, we would have a much longer and harder wars to fight and see lots of dead troops.

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Joseph
I trust the America census first, and screw the UN.

That sound just about right to me. The US in the 90s had a pop of 260 million, nor the 270 you claim. We have about 300 million now, and we have a slow rate of population groth, so that sound just about right.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Jack_www


That sound just about right to me. The US in the 90s had a pop of 260 million, nor the 270 you claim. We have about 300 million now, and we have a slow rate of population groth, so that sound just about right.

One year they said 267 million, but can't remember which year it was. And remember the illegal almost never fill out the form or send them in to be counted, because they feel the INS would used the form to find them. We now have between 10 to 20 million illegal. I was watching Lou Dobb on CNN 2 week ago when he was hitting the Illegal very hard.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Pekka
I'd say... me!

Beat you to it much earlier in this thread.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Serb
I know the difference, but I guess I've made a mistake. You said - "Our (USA) track record is still better in that regard" and I thought you're saying that Russia brake/withdraw from treaties more often than USA. That's why I asked you to bring an example when we broke a treaty last time.

Well, with that same ABM treaty the ABM ring around Moscow and the radar array in Siberia were thought to be technical violations back in the 80's. I suppose little was made of it because all of it had a less chance of working than anything we could come up with.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Serb
Who cares what think about themselves. They are traitors in accordance with law.

Only in Russia.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Joseph
F-21. No record of a 21. Maybe they skip the number or it was an area 51 plane that we will never hear about.

I'm not sure about an F-21 but I know there was an F-23. It was the prototype of a plane from another company competing against the F-22 during the bidding process.

[Ned]

B-52

[Ned]

Here's a pic

[Ned]

Alternatively, the 4th ID.

[Mr. President]

Australia still uses the F-111, y'know. Apparently it's still relevant after almost forty years.