I'm disappointed . . . . .

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
He'll get slaughtered, Mr Fun. He's a Dukakis for our times.

He may get slaughtered, but it won't be because he's a Dukakis.

You have to remember how 1988 played out (I have vivid memories of this because I got to participate in the Iowa caucuses that year). The dems had a large field then, as they do now. But...

1) That field was strongly ideologically divided. Traditional Dems were lining up behind Paul Simon; progressives were in Jesse Jackson's camp; DLC types were testing out their first-ever candidate, Al Gore. Dukakis emerged as the candidate of choice not because of who he was, but of who he wasn't. He was everybody's second choice, and didn't speak directly to any part of the traditional base. That's not Dean.

2) Dukakis refused, by and large, to attack Bush Sr. on questions of ideology, even though that was where Bush was most vulnerable. In stead he ran on his own record, and let Bush do the attacking. That's not Dean.

3) Dukakis didn't emerge as the front-runner until well into the process. That's not Dean.

Like I said, he might get slaughtered. But not for being Dukakis.

[Imran Siddiqui]

He may get slaughtered, but it won't be because he's a Dukakis.

I'm talking in terms of electoral votes. He's a Dukakis because he'll get similar votes .

[monkspider]

...and thus, Mr Fun expresses his disappointment with everything. The world quivers in fear. Next week on Apolyton: "Why I am slightly unhappy with Teddy Bears" by Mr. Fun (to be followed by "Sorry guys, I was wrong about whole the Teddy Bear thing").

[MrFun]

Originally posted by monkspider
...and thus, Mr Fun expresses his disappointment with everything. The world quivers in fear. Next week on Apolyton: "Why I am slightly unhappy with Teddy Bears" by Mr. Fun (to be followed by "Sorry guys, I was wrong about whole the Teddy Bear thing").

First of all, back in that thread about roadside memorials I was arguing completely in favor of them.



Secondly, I'm not claiming/implying I'm a demi-god expert -- I'm just expressing my opinions and thoughts.



SOOOOOOOOOO sorry if you thought otherwise.

[Patroklos]

Hey,

Dean has the problem as well, that he has nothing to do but attack attack attack.

Basically stating Bush is rong is one issue, you can devide it up as much as you want but voters see one thing, "you are anti-Bush."

Well Mr Dean, we all know this, how about you tell me something else.

OT: Why do you think resistance won't slacken, obviously all the attacks for the next few weeks, maybe month, are preplanned. I really wish people would give SOME time for things to develope.

-Pat

[GePap]

Dean is no Dukakis-that is how he was painted, but given he opposed the ban on assault rifles and backed the welfare reform bill, he is in no way a lefty. His opposition to the war has painted him that way, but Gore was as opposed, and Gore was no lefty either.

I never heard any dems say the failure to get Saddam was that significant (now, the failure to get Osama...), so whe dems that disgust me most are Liberman and Kerry who used the capture to gang up on Dean..but neither men seems to have a shot now, and if people accuse dean of only attacking Bush without presenting a vision, then Kerry and Lieberman are even lower by simply attacking Dean without a vision.

[chequita guevara]

The same people saying Dean can't win are the people who said he couldn't be nominated.

[GePap]

As Ghandi said

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Bush is a strong incumbent becuase he has the solid support of his base (the right), so it won;t be easy for Dems to beat him, but Liberman and Kerry have failed to show democracts would vote for them in any number..why would anyone else?

[chequita guevara]

Anyone who doesn't think Dean has a vision hasn't been paying attention. It's not that hard, given how excited the media are with Dean (he's contraversial and speaks well).

Dean is a Dem with a spine, which is what differentiates him from the normal invertibrate Democrat. Lieberman is just in the wrong party. He's really be much happier with his ideological bretheren on the right wing of the Republican Party. Kerry's just trying to stay alive. (Has anyone else noticed that three of the front runners are from New England?)

[SlowwHand]

We call it "crabbing" in Texas MrFun.
Dean is the lead crabber today.

[chequita guevara]

19% of all Americans think they're in the top 1% of income earners. That fact, and MrFuns thread make me dispair of the level of intelligence of the American people.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

He may get slaughtered, but it won't be because he's a Dukakis.

I'm talking in terms of electoral votes. He's a Dukakis because he'll get similar votes .

C'mon, Imran, we all know you're smarter than that. You really think Bush would take New England? New York? New Jersey? The West Coast? He might be able to snipe one or two states in the Upper Midwest (MN, WI, MI, IA, IL); while some of those states were very close in 2000 (though not statistical-tie-Florida close), they are traditionally either very progressive or labor-focused (or both), and those bases are being energized. But apart from that (and maybe New Mexico or Pennsylvania), I can't see any conceivable way that Bush turns any another blue state to a red state.

Now, given the utter frustration felt by many Dems, I find it more likely that traditional blue states that went red in 2000 (I'm looking at you, West Virginia and New Hampshire) will come back to the Dems. I don't think Florida will flip, but given it was a virtual tie in 2000, who's to say?

Anyone who doubts that 2004 is going to be a close election is fooling themselves.

[Ramo]

never heard any dems say the failure to get Saddam was that significant (now, the failure to get Osama...)

Right. I have no idea of what Fun is referring to.

I'm disappointed that the Dems aren't making any criticisms of the internal Iraqi policies (possibly excluding Kucinich). All I hear about is getting UN/NATO troops. For instance, why isn't the right to form unions being established, and hell, why aren't we actively creating trade unions? Why isn't the provisional assembly going to be democratic? Why are we purposefully pissing off local Iraqi communities with our military actions, such as the bulldozing of houses in Tikrit? Why are we wasting Iraqi reconstruction money on corporate pork for US businesses when Iraqis can do the job for far cheaper - which would also help rebuild Iraq's economy? The Dems ought to be ask these questions.

[GePap]

The press in this coutry loves horse races, and hadicapping people. policy attention, well, who cares.

One things I know..Gore was poor in the debates, stiff and nerdy, and becuase of this Bush gave a good impression.

Dean would give George a massive whooping on any debate, speically since the last thing Dean is is nerdy.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by GePap
The press in this coutry loves horse races, and hadicapping people. policy attention, well, who cares.

One things I know..Gore was poor in the debates, stiff and nerdy, and becuase of this Bush gave a good impression.

Dean would give George a massive whooping on any debate, speically since the last thing Dean is is nerdy.

That is actually an excellent point. Everyone thought Gore would blow away Bush in the debates since he was so much more "intellectual" than Bush (though in reality, both were very poor students and Bush is no idiot). Instead, Gore looked like his stereotype, a robot. Worse, the only emotion he did show was to give a loud SIGH every time Bush opened his mouth. I wanted to reach into the TV and slug the passive-aggressive dumbass.

No way Dean makes those same mistakes.