Persecution of christians

[Boris Godunov]

You don't think the events in the gospel are mythologized at all? No exaggeration whatsoever?

How is the calendar changing proof of the historicity of Jesus? Hmm, when did the calendar change? How many hundreds of years after Jesus's life?

And it's wrong, according to theologians, by as much as 6 years!

So were Roman institutions based on the legends of their gods proof of their existence? Oh, there's a planet named Mars--he must be real!

[Lincoln]

No Boris. Western civilization is not wrong and you and other fanatical atheists are right. There was a Jesus even if you prefer that there was not.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Why did the church accept these authors for their Gospels if they knew them to be falsely attributed?

Politics.

In the 2nd Century A.D. church there was an ideological war between the Orthodox and the Gnostics. To admit that the cannonical Gospels were falsely attributed would have been backing down befoer the Gnostic "threat" to the established Church hierarchy.

If they weren't atributed to those whom they were supposed to be attributed, then what suerior claim would they have to say, [i]The Gospel of Mary Magdelene, The Apocalypse of Peter, the Gospel of Thomas,[i] etc.? If the etablished church could be wrong about something so fundimental, what else could they be wrong about? This was a serious threat during the period of real persecution of Christians.

The Orthodox position was that Christ died bodily and was resurrected bodily. Orthodox Christians were to emulate this, and if prosecuted, confess their faith (in the real meaning of the word confession and not the confession of faith we have now days) and be bodily executed like their savior. Many of the Gnostics, on the other hand, believed that Christ was divine in nature only, thus his death was symbolic. There was no martyrdom to emulate, and Christians should save their life and give unto Ceaser what is Caeser's, since it means nothing.

It's really a very fascinating period of Christian history. Interestingly enough, one of the major authors for the Orthodox position, Tertellius, ends up later opposing the Church hierarchy because they selected a bishop he felt was unqualified (I think he wanted the position).

[Boris Godunov]

Blah blah blah, Lincoln.

Remember that a good majority of the world have believed at some point that Marduk, Zeus, Osiris, or some other such deity existed. Are they all true because of popular conceit?

I've never asserted Jesus didn't exist, merely that I think it's a reasonable position. I am wholely undecided on the issue. I'd love to see your evidence for it that doesn't rely on hearsay.

Just because you really want something to be true doesn't make it true. See how that works both ways?

Keep fishing.

BTW, don't dodge the question--do you believe eveything attributed in the Bible to Jesus is 100% accurate, or is their some mythologizing?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Lincoln
Right. The calendar was changed because of a myth.

Why not? Some months and days are named after myths. See, normal emperors don't get months named after them. But the gods, Julius and Augustus did. Tyr, Wodan, Thor, Frey, and Saturn all had days named after them, as well as the sun and moon, both gods in their own right.

The holiday Easter is named for the Cannanite fertility goddess, Aster, aka, Astarte, aka Ishtar.

[Boris Godunov]

ISHTAR MUST BE REAL!!!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
ISHTAR MUST BE REAL!!!

It is, and it's a very bad movie!

[Boris Godunov]

If there's a Hell, I'm sure its being shown there 24-7.

[Lincoln]

I believe that Jesus performed miracles. I don't believe that anything is mythology but the text must be taken in context with regard to analogy and metaphor.

And several thousand years of Christian persecution including that which took place shortly after the death of Jesus was not because of a mythical creature that deceived the whole world. Even the persecutors of Christians did not deny his existence although some thought he was not a true prophet.

[Boris Godunov]

Which Christian persecution is this? Surely you don't mean Nero's purported persecution?

Besides, persecution of religious sects prove nothing. Christianity was but one of many religious groups that were persecuted at some point or another. And Christianity went on to get its own back by persecuting millions in other religions over its 2,000 year history. Multitudes of slaughtered Jews, Muslims, Hindus, pagans, etc. are testament to that.

The martyrdom complex rides again...

[chequita guevara]

Several thousand years of Christian persecution? Unless you're counting Christians being persecuted by other Christians . . . ???

[Boris Godunov]

First it all must be true because the majority of the Western world is Christian and might makes right, but then it must be true because Christians are an eternally persecuted, downtrodden sect. Such scattershot arguments, tsk!

[Lincoln]

You are welcome to deny the obvious. Most fanatics do that so help yourselves. Maybe you can make a new calendar and change the dates on coins to reflect your new found reality.

[Caligastia]

I believe Jesus was real because his teachings were so spiritually advanced that no normal human could have conceived of them.

Having said that, I don't believe that his purpose here was to appease an angry God through blood sacrifice.

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Several thousand years of Christian persecution? Unless you're counting Christians being persecuted by other Christians . . . ???

True Christians do not persecute anyone, so yes, I am talking also about "Christians" persecuting Christians, Jews and whoever else was handy.