Axis&Allies board game

[nato]

Well, with all due respect thats wrong on both counts.

Its not a waste of time. Russia has the strength to attack on R1. It would, in fact, be a waste of time NOT to attack. In war you generally want to use resources as soon as they become available, and this holds true in games also.

German units aren't concentrated yet, you get to hit them before they do and weaken him. You may get to kill a fighter before it ever gets to attack, complicating Germany's many tasks on G1. And you get the swing of 6 IPCs.

Russia has a choice of three land targets: Ukraine, EE, or Finland/Norway. Each of these choices has its strengths and weaknesses. You could pick any of the three and be ok mostly, but I think on balance Ukraine is the best choice. To my understanding, it is the most popular, usual choice.

Compared to the other two, in Ukraine you get to take out one extra German tank. Compared to Norway, Inf there can still pressure EE next turn. Compared to EE, Germany has less in range to hit back with, so you can take it hard with tanks and get the extra fighter and swing of 6 IPCs.

On the second point, Russia Resticted IS NOT the default rules. Its a variant rule commonly used because even casual players realized the big advantage the Allies have (though as I said, even RR alone is not enough to balance it).

RR is common in casual, non league play. It might be considered the "default" in the World at War room on the Zone. However, it is definitely not the default for more competitive play. RR is not used in the main leagues/databases.

Therefore the bid is higher than in RR. Like I said above, the bid is around 18 without RR, 6 with it.

[Ramo]

I'd definitely be up for it, David. Next weekend maybe?

And yes, giving up Karelia is suicidal.

[DanS]

German units aren't concentrated yet, you get to hit them before they do and weaken him.

Yes, but you're also splitting your own infantry. How much would you bring into the Ukraine? 3 infantry + fighters? I'll have to think about this.

[David Floyd]

Sure Ramo...maybe we can get together on Sunday...

[Ramo]

Sounds good.

[nato]

Yes, but you're also splitting your own infantry. How much would you bring into the Ukraine? 3 infantry + fighters? I'll have to think about this.

Well, its like I described in my post above. You don't attack with 3 inf + fighters. That would be far too little.

First off, the fighters usually don't come. They are busy killing the baltic fleet, alone if you are risky, with the trannie if you aren't (the sub is hitting the Azores German sub, either killing it or blocking it off.) One extra fighter would help, but then can't be used elsewhere. This is a resource allocation decision you have to make.

You need to take enough inf to protect your 3 tanks if you end up taking the territory. You have to watch the battle carefully. If the German defenders inflict too many hits, you won't have enough surviving inf, so you must not take the territory. In this case, you want to inflict hits, but you don't want to accidentally kill them all and strand your tanks in the Ukraine, vulnerable to a counter.

Then you move the Russia inf into Karelia and place your new builds (all inf on turn 1) there. You also land 2 fighters. Germany won't have quite enough to take it

This is my least favorite and weakest part of A&A actually. RR is a nice way to play, and not worry about this all!

edit - I want to add you have a real smart point that attacking this way means Russia isn't concentrated either. You're right, and from R2 on almost all Russians will be concentrated on Karelia.

The thing is, Russia has the strength to take advantage of Germany's early dispersal and kill a nice portion of its army. Germany doesn't have the strength to do this on G1; they have so much to do and so little to do it with.

[centrifuge]

The reason to abandon Karelia, is because of the large economic advantage that Germany has. If a Russian fortified Karelia is taken in the first turn, it is next to impossible to get the units back in a reasonable amount of time, espescially the tanks and fighter... afterwards, depending on who is in control of Germany, and with cooperation from your allies, it is easy enough to retake Karelia in a turn or two.

Granted it is a bit of a gamble, but the odds are that the average player of Germany will be trying to fortify Karelia with as many troops as they can spare, because they are going to start salivating at the thought of taking the Russian capital. This is where Germany can receive a major blow, one which will probably be hard to recover from, and will allow the US an the UK to easier begin an offensive.

[DanS]

You need to take enough inf to protect your 3 tanks if you end up taking the territory. You have to watch the battle carefully. If the German defenders inflict too many hits, you won't have enough surviving inf, so you must not take the territory. In this case, you want to inflict hits, but you don't want to accidentally kill them all and strand your tanks in the Ukraine, vulnerable to a counter.

Here's where the resource allocation really gets you. Russia must above all keep its capital and then balance its two fronts. The tanks are too valuable to end the turn in the Ukraine. All of them need to be able to counterattack on either front on the second turn. Otherwise, the Japanese are almost assured to be attacking Moscow and Africa starting turn 5, with all of the IPCs between the Pacific coast and Moscow lost.

[nato]

Well, I agree you want the tanks to be able to threaten both fronts. Like I already said in a post above, the best place for them is in Russia proper to do just that.

However the tanks can certainly end R1 in Ukraine. Japan will certainly not be in range on turn 1, and hopefully not for a few turns yet. If you keep them in Russia on turn 1, they are a wasted resource.

In fact typically they will not only be in Ukraine R1, they will be in Norway R2. Then from R3 on they will prolly be in Russia.

Japan's coming, but not for a few turns yet, especially if they got hit with Kwangtung Surprise. Don't grant them the advantage of tying down your tanks until you actually have to.

[David Floyd]

Well, I agree you want the tanks to be able to threaten both fronts. Like I already said in a post above, the best place for them is in Russia proper to do just that.

Early on, I'd probably put at least 2 tanks in Novo, for a possible counter against an early Japanese gamble into India - make it so unprofitable for Japan that they won't do it, even when the KNOW the Brits will put a factory up.

Japan's coming, but not for a few turns yet, especially if they got hit with Kwangtung Surprise. Don't grant them the advantage of tying down your tanks until you actually have to.

Actually, a British IC in India, if properly played, can often times tie down the Japanese for even 6-7 turns, and that's against a GOOD Japanese player. In 6-7 turns, the US/British can be shoving a combined 20+ infantry per turn into Norway, France, or Algeria, and will have been doing this since around Turn 3.

[Zylka]

Dave, up for a game?

[David Floyd]

I no longer have Dogs of War on my computer.

[Zylka]

Hmmm. WHere can I get axis and allies, maybe kazza?

[David Floyd]

Hmmm, maybe. The PC version is very unstable when played online, though.

[Zylka]

So what exactly are all of you guys talking about playing