Is it true that Russian troops looted/raped Berlin mid-evil style for 3 days...

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Pekka
So.. when do we get Karelia back?

When did you ever have it?

[Pekka]

lord of the mark, correct. We don't have reportings of mass rapings etc.. In general, Russian soldiers behaviour is not comparable in here than it was in perhaps Germany. In here we had pretty much straight fighting going on. But then again, we did evacuate our people and were able to fall back in good order, so that none was left to invading soldiers. That's why I said burn the houses and blow up the bridges and leave no land in good condition (to make support harder for the enemy, no houses to set up things, food, nothing). So we wouldn't know. But, in general, we had a straight war without too much of these kind of things. Of course there are some individual situations, but nothing worth mentioning really.

But then again, the RUssian soldiers really didn't have a deep hatred for us as far as I understand. Sure, war, but nothing TOO personal from their side. Most of them weren't actually sure why, and the rest of them thought they were to liberate us. But in Germany... Nazis had advanced deep inside Russia, killing lots of folks and things like that.. so they surely must have hated Nazis. Also, soldiers were forced to fight (naturally) and in long war you see your buddies die etc.. lots of casualties, it's not like you start loving the enemy. And when they got to Berlin, I guess some people just went too far. Jusitified? No.. Understandable? I guess so.

[Pekka]

che, before Russia attacked us we had it.

Anyway, it also must be noted, that there was very little to loot and rape, because most of the fighting happened in areas with nothing but forrest and individual houses. But I must also say, that Russian soldiers didn't show the kind of will to loot and rape here. Also no reports of mass killings of POWs for example. We got ours back, and they got theirs back and both had reasonable treatment. But I'm sure if other side had made the mistake to do nasty stuff, it would have affected the other side to do it too. But in a way I guess we were both gentlemen if you can say it like that.

[germanos]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
It's not excusable, but considering what the Nazis did to the USSR, it's certainly understandable. Twenty to thirty million dead countrymen will make you want revenge.

It's a loosy excuse for raping the prisoners of the Nazi's.

[JCG]

Well, from what I've read on other forums, it seems that while a bit widespread in the Western press, apparently there are very few direct testimonies of the mass rapes, and the sometimes quoted "2 million rapes" figure has no evidence to support it outside of a doctor's random calculation...

In any case, I certainly can and do admit that there may well have been many cases of rapes and other brutalities committed by the Soviets, but not nearly as much as some would think...

[Lord Merciless]

You can't blame Russkies considering what Germans did to them first. At least Russkies weren't bent on exterminating the Germanic Evil Race.

[cinch]

Originally posted by reds4ever


oh, you mean medievil

No, I think he means 'medieval', actually.

[The Vagabond]

Looting certainly did take place. Army officers sometimes managed to bring with them more things than would fit in a simple suitcase (ordinary soldiers were usually not that lucky). I am personally aware of one of such cases. The father of one of my mother's friends brought with him quite a fortune from Germany (but I don't remember details, I'd have to ask my mother). IIRC, he brought a car among other things. But he is a very decent and honorable guy, doesn't look like a looter at all. Well, the situation of that time was such that looting Germany was not felt as something wrong. Even decent people were sometimes involved in it.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Pekka
che, before Russia attacked us we had it.

But, unfortunately for you, it will always belong to Russia now

Anyway, it also must be noted, that there was very little to loot and rape, because most of the fighting happened in areas with nothing but forrest and individual houses. But I must also say, that Russian soldiers didn't show the kind of will to loot and rape here. Also no reports of mass killings of POWs for example. We got ours back, and they got theirs back and both had reasonable treatment. But I'm sure if other side had made the mistake to do nasty stuff, it would have affected the other side to do it too. But in a way I guess we were both gentlemen if you can say it like that.

Thats because we love you Finns Even if you harbour Pikku G.

[Ned]

FYI, the American, French and English soldiers also liberally looted Nazi buildings and homes. What we did not do, AFAIK, is rape.

The looting is portrayed in the recent "true" account of the war in the book and movie "Band of Brothers."

[GePap]

The war between the Elbe and the Volga was one of no quarters, I mean, well over half of all people killed in WW2 died between those rivers. After the horrific damage brought upon the western Soviet Union, Poland and many other areas, why would anyone be shocked at the behavior of the Soviet forces when they came into Germany? The Germans raped and plundered, the Soviets raped and plundered, and several cities like Warsaw and Breslau were almost utterly annahilated (were are talking 90% destruction). And after the war tens of millions were forced to move and relocate.

Was this all horrific and beyond what we consider the pale today? Yes, but it was that kind of war.

[Ned]

GePap, I have to agree with you. Clearly the NAZI's conducted a "scorched earth" policy when they retreated, trying to impose on the advancing Soviets a reverse of what happened to Napolean.

Something similar happened to the South during the civil war during Sherman's march to the sea. Had the anyone from the South been able to lay their hands on Sherman, I am sure his death would not have been quick.

[Adam Smith]

One account I read of the Battle of Berlin described how advancing Russian troops would remove light bulbs from their sockets, thinking that the bulbs themselves were sufficinet for illumination.

[GePap]

Germany must have been a very strange place for most Soviet forces, a place of goods they had rarely or ever seen.

But think about it: if you are a poor peasent from the Cacauses, and you come to Germany and you see wealth far beyond what you have, and then you think how these people, who are so rich, came and looted and plundered in your home, what are you to think? Why would such rich people loot the poor unless they were evil?

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by GePap
The Germans raped and plundered, the Soviets raped and plundered

I'd like to issue a formal protest against equating the actions of the two sides like this. Yes, the Soviets raped and plundered. But the Nazis raped, plundered AND mass-slaughtered. Besides, the Soviets did this in a rage over what the Nazis had done in the USSR, while the Nazis didn't have such an "excuse" for behaving like animals.