Is it true that Russian troops looted/raped Berlin mid-evil style for 3 days...

[Ned]

This is also a distinction between Sherman and the NAZI's as well. But not between Sherman and the Soviets in Germany.

[Saras]

The Red Army had to restrained not to loot & rape Lithuania.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Saras
The Red Army had to restrained not to loot & rape Lithuania.

Too bad too. Maybe if this had not happend, Lithuania would be a massive sales lot for all the cars stolen in Poland

What we did not do, AFAIK, is rape.

Hmm, but you have done such things in many wars....The most prominent of which being....
Doo yoo speek TENG VIET?
I doo noo speek TENG VIET

The Germans raped and plundered, the Soviets raped and plundered,

Oh come on. A bunch of young soldiers finally get into the capital city of the government that liberally looted Soviet cities and raped their women. They enslaved people and killed them mericlessly, and you blame the Soviet soldiers for finally taking out their anger against Nazi Germany?

Yes, but it was that kind of war.

Yes. It was World War 2

IIRC, he brought a car among other things

In a suitcase?!

It's a loosy excuse for raping the prisoners of the Nazi's.

Lousy, and hardly. Considering the horror the Nazis inflicted on not only the Soviets but all of Europe...Not justifiable, but certainly not "loosy"

Of course they did. But this is not to bash Rooskies in general.. I guess they were tired, in war, get victory, in Berlin.. what do you do? You turn them lose, they'll smash the place in half and loot.

Yeah. Imagine if Finland reached....Karelia even I shudder to think

Hell. Look at Tassadar, then tell me Russkie's don't hold a grudge.

Only against you Texans.
Rossiya Deutschland
Rossiya Suomi
Death to Texas!

Not looking at the flag in their shoulder.

Yes. The Soviets used to open up their arms and put the Soviet flag in them (On medication, pardon my...jerkiness)

And the soviet soldiers were trained to hate the Germans with all their heart.

Yep.

bricks

Were not talking about Warsaw here

As I understand it, all allied troops looted as they went through Germany and Austria,

I seem to see you more and more coming towards the center.

The soviets raped and looted everywhere they went.

Nobody of the women's 'comrades' back home was willing to hear their stories, since they could 'obviously' not be true

I wonder what choice they had. A Soviet official asks "Do you believe these obvious lies?". Say yes and die. Say no and live.
Hmm, pretty hard choice there

So.. when do we get Karelia back?

Karelia may be returned to the Finno Oblast when it is fully integrated into the New Soviet Union

[:) Smiley]

And now, in Iraq, US soldiers don't loot, though US corporations and local citizens sure do.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Smiley
US soldiers don't loot, .

I hope this is sarcasm

[Ned]

The History Channel just ran a piece on von Paulus, the commander of the Sixth Army that surrendered at Stalingrad. It said that von Paulus rescinded the standing order of the previous army commander that his troops could do anything they wanted to the Russian civilians. Von Paulus apparently was appalled by what the German army had been doing under its previous commander.

Obviously, this "restraint" may have expired with von Paulus's command in January 1943.

[Dinner]

When the Soviets got into Germany they took everything that wasn't nailed down and then once they'd done that they started to disassemble factories and other buildings so that they could be moved to Russia and reconstructed. They stole literally everything they could and called it compensation for the Nazi invasion which is a claim with some merit.

In fact the Russian motorcycle maker Ural still makes a slightly updated version of a pre-war BMW motorcycle in a facotry that was originally a BMW factory in Bavaria but which the Soviets moved to the eastern edge of Europe. To this day they are still making the same stolen motor cycle design in the same stolen factory.

[Ned]

Oerdin, this reminds me of a story told by an oldtimer in the disk drive business. He related that he sold an obsolete disk drive line to the Chicoms in the late '70s or early 80s. When he went for a visit nearly 15 years later, he saw that the original disk drive line was in full operation - with the original parts. Apparently, they would assemble the disk drives, see that they worked, and then promptly disassemble them and restore the parts to the assembly line.

Now, why would they do this?

Apparently, they had no source outside China for new parts for the obsolete disk drive, nor did they have any ability to make the parts in China. Thus they had no choice but to keep the assembly line running by dissambling every drive they built.

At least with the BMW motorcycle, the Russians stole the plans for the parts. But the fact that they never improved the design goes to show you a fundamental lack of know how.

[Q Classic]

and that is why communism fell: because they couldn't keep up with the tech race. being unable to keep up technologically, without having a free market to drive r&d and the economy, they were unable to match the us budget.

had very little to do with reagan.

[Pekka]

che, so what happened back then you thought as tough love... naturally, we didn't want communism but you knew the real way to glory and wanted to help us.. thanks

But, I hereby give you my personal blessing of bombing Pikku G. Get the planes in the air, I'll try to convince our side to be cool and not try anything funny while you do little 'purification' .

[centrifuge]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
and that is why communism fell: because they couldn't keep up with the tech race. being unable to keep up technologically, without having a free market to drive r&d and the economy, they were unable to match the us budget.

had very little to do with reagan.

...but Reagan raised the US's Defense and scientific research budget to a number that he knew the soviets could never match...specifically because of the reasons you posted.

So yes, it had a lot to do with Reagan...he took advantage of the USSR's main weakness.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Lousy, and hardly. Considering the horror the Nazis inflicted on not only the Soviets but all of Europe...Not justifiable, but certainly not "loosy"

OMG you find a typo and must laugh.

I wonder what choice they had. A Soviet official asks "Do you believe these obvious lies?". Say yes and die. Say no and live.
Hmm, pretty hard choice there

Just shows you how pityfull it is to even try to find an excuse or justification: The horrible behaviour of the Red Army in WW2 has as much to do with montruous Soviet indoctrination as it has with anything the soldiers might have experienced from the nazi's.

But I was not talking about the Soviet Union here, I was talking about the Dutch Communist resistance. It showes how backward the stalinists are, that when personal experience doesn't fit the picture, you just shut your eyes and ridicule the victim.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Pekka
che, before Russia attacked us we had it.

You only had a tiny sliver of it. The vast majority of Karelia was always in Russian/Soviet hands, even back in the days of Novgorod.

[Pekka]

Sure. That makes it ok to take it all . If I'm poor, it's ok to take everything I have, since it's not that much. 400 000 homes.. who counts!

[chequita guevara]

Well, you should say, when do we get back the piece of Karelia, instead of just saying Karelia.