Atheists offended by teddy bears...

[Ben Kenobi]

Jamski:

I'm considered quite radical in RL. Pushy even.

So go ahead, anything you say won't be worse than some of what I hear every friday out on the street.

Besides, what kind of sissy troll are you who declines an invitation?

[Sprayber]

Has poly turned into nothing more that a bunch of ****ing *******s. Just like the rest of the country I suppose. These athiests are just like every other group in the country that can't stand to see someone else getting attention. Even if its people who have died. Get over yourselves please. You are no better than the freaks that want to impose their morality on others. So che, dont get up on your soap box about the poor atheist community being oppressed. It's not about athiest. It's about ass holes wanting to get on tv or in the papers by trying to cause a fury over the simplist of things. It's not about being anti-religion or road safety. It's about being an old fashioned Ass .


Like Mr. Fun stated. If a simple cross on the side of the road is a distraction, then for the sake of us all dont drive.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by MrFun
For those atheists who are part of this stupidity -- fvck off.

Nothing to add, that's sick. Zealous atheists, what idiots!

[Japher]

Like Mr. Fun stated. If a simple cross on the side of the road is a distraction, then for the sake of us all dont drive.

In San Francisco there is giant cross in the middle of a city park. There was some problem over this a while ago because of church/state BS. The state sold the land around the cross for like 10 cents to a near-by church... got them.

As for crosses on the side of the road or other memorials errected by private citizens, clean-up could be seen as an act of impeding one's right to pracitce their religion... Since when has seeing something become akin to worship?

I wonder what athesits call people with biblical names?

"Your name is John? That name is offensive to me for so many reasons. For now on I will call you Hank."

Jackasses

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Jamski
Nope, they're just pissed at seeing crosses EVERYWHERE, and people saying "God bless ____" and Xmas, and Easter, and St Patrick's Day. For an athiest its HELLISH having all this Christian stuff hanging around. If you are a Christian, imagine it the other way round - living as a Christian in an Athiest world. People would laugh at you for giving Xmas presents etc...

Walk a mile in the other guys shoes... (most atheists were brought up as Christians, so they have already seen the others side)

-Jam

I'm an atheist. I think any of the atheists that are bothered by this are morons. They have freedom of religion, just like you have freedom of, ummm, not-religion. Plus, I get presents on xmas and candy on easter, so I don't see any reason to stop them

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kropotkin
Maybe the pictures are demeaning to women, but so are the statements about men that can't control themselves just because of a picture of a half-naked woman.

How is the truth demeaning

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
So who's vandalizing the Jewish cemetaries in Europe?

The same people who vandalise them in America: neo-nazi and dumb punk kids who don't know any better.

[Whaleboy]

I'm drunk

[Japher]

I'm drunk

[Jamski]

Besides, what kind of sissy troll are you who declines an invitation?

I had a pizza and relaxed a bit I'm happy to allow Christians to continue beliveing whatever junk they want. I know I'm saved from it though - escaped from the church 6 years ago

-Jam

[MrFun]

Originally posted by skywalker


I'm an atheist. I think any of the atheists that are bothered by this are morons. They have freedom of religion, just like you have freedom of, ummm, not-religion. Plus, I get presents on xmas and candy on easter, so I don't see any reason to stop them

These are the atheists I never have problems with -- since your type respect the dignity of other people, as well as those who are deceased.

thanks for your comment

[Asher]

Christians terrified of teenager...

http://palmbeachpost.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&expire=&urlID=8051963&fb=Y&partnerID=491

High school senior came 'out' - and was expelled

By Elizabeth Clarke, Palm Beach Post Religion Writer
Saturday, October 25, 2003

JUPITER -- Jeffrey Woodard's parents never took him to church. They certainly didn't ever plan to send him to a religious high school. But when he was 14, Jeffrey asked his mom if he could attend Jupiter Christian School. He told her he felt God leading him there.

Carol Gload liked the idea. She thought it would help Jeff spiritually and academically, and he started after Thanksgiving of his freshman year. As a senior this year, he was especially looking forward to singing in the choir and Bible class.

But on the third day of school, his Bible teacher -- who is also the school chaplain --pulled him out of class with a personal question. Jeffrey said the teacher assured him they were having a confidential conversation, and then asked whether it was true that Jeffrey was a homosexual.

"I told him, 'Yes, I am gay,' " Jeffrey says. "I was just being totally honest with him because I don't lie."

Two days later, he was expelled.

In a short meeting at the school, he and his mother say, they were offered the options of counseling to change Jeff's sexual orientation, voluntary withdrawal or expulsion. The first two choices weren't acceptable to them, leaving only expulsion.

"I was just shocked," says Jeffrey, who was not public about his sexuality at school. "I just couldn't believe what I was hearing."

His mom is outraged -- and sad that her son had to go through this. She and Jeffrey filed a lawsuit against the school Tuesday.

"He was crushed," Gload says, tears welling in her eyes. "He was devastated. It was very hard."

But it's something that could happen at other Christian schools in Florida, even those that accept public money through the state's voucher program as Jupiter Christian does.

The law doesn't prohibit sexual discrimination at private schools, according to Howard Burke, executive director of the Florida Association of Christian Colleges and Schools, which represents 170 conservative Christian schools in Florida.

Schools that accept disabled students using vouchers must comply with a federal code banning discrimination based on race, color or national origin -- but not sexuality, he says.

"Christian schools do not have to compromise their biblical standards to accept a child on a voucher," Burke says.

The state Department of Education did not respond to repeated requests to confirm that.

Gload disagrees with Jupiter Christian's stance on homosexuality but believes the school is entitled to it. The policy, however, should be explicitly stated in the school's documents for students and parents to consider, she says. And she doesn't think it should be able to accept vouchers.

"I have trouble with them taking any nickel from my pocket to support their discrimination," she says. "If this is their policy, they need to put it out there."

Minding his own business

Even if what happened to Jeffrey was legal, that doesn't make it right, says Jamie Foreman, president of the Palm Beach County Human Rights Council, a watchdog group for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transsexual issues.

"Here we have a kid who was minding his own business," he says. "He had told a few confidantes, which is something we all need to do. And he was lined up and flushed out of the closet and expelled from school."

Forty-year-old Jupiter Christian School is a conservative, Bible-based school that is not affiliated with any church. About 630 students attend grades K-12; high-schoolers pay $6,575 a year to attend.

Sexuality is not addressed specifically in the student handbook. But the book does spell out behavior expectations, school President Rich Grimm said before the suit was filed. Parents and students agree to those standards each year in paperwork submitted for admission, he said.

The handbook's conduct code says students' goal should be obeying Scripture and that they should "practice courtesy, kindness, morality, honesty and consideration" with teachers, employees, fellow students and visitors.

It lists three reasons for automatic expulsion: bringing a weapon to school; threatening a teacher, student or administrator; or committing a felony.

Jeffrey did none of those things, he and his mother say.

Grimm couldn't comment, saying privacy laws prohibit it. The school -- like several area Christian schools -- does not have a separate policy for gay students. It handles all discipline issues individually, Grimm said.

"Obviously, the story you've heard is incomplete," he said before the suit was filed. "Unfortunately, we can't get into the details because of privacy laws and school policy."

Grimm posted a short note to parents, students and supporters on the school's Web site Wednesday. He said it was the only comment he could make on the lawsuit.

"Please know that we dispute many of the 'facts' in the claim, as some of this information contradicts our records and timeline," it reads in part. "We have faith that the ministry of Jupiter Christian School will be exonerated."

In a letter to school supporters released Friday, Grimm provided a few more details, saying the school went to "extraordinary lengths" to work with Gload and her son on several issues.

"Jupiter Christian School officials did not 'out' Mr. Woodard nor did we violate any request for confidentiality," Grimm writes. "Any allegation to the contrary is simply false."

Grimm also wrote that he believes the court will uphold the school's right to set its own rules. "The bottom line is that this lawsuit is a backdoor attempt at attacking our constitutionally protected rights of religious freedom and free expression."

Jeffrey, 18, admits he struggled academically last year. He failed Algebra II and Spanish II. But he and his mom heard nothing about academic problems or other disciplinary concerns in the 10-minute discussion before he was expelled.

The school offered Gload the chance to appeal the decision to its board of directors, but she didn't want to do that.

"I was told that he was expelled," she says. "That was the end of it for me."

Jeffrey now attends Jupiter High School. He's open about his sexuality there, unlike at Jupiter Christian. He's working to start a gay-straight student alliance.

And he wouldn't go back to Jupiter Christian if he could.

"I've been so much more positive since then," he says. "I've been feeling a lot better about myself. I don't fear coming out."

But those first days after being expelled were awful.

After the conversation with his Bible teacher, Jeffrey went right home and told his mother.

She already knew he was gay. He'd come out to her during the summer, after experiencing depression last year and eventually finding a psychiatrist who helped him accept his sexuality. That came only after he had prayed -- and had pastors pray over him -- for God to change his sexuality.

"Of course, none of it had worked," he said.

Jeff said his mom was great about accepting his sexuality.

"All she did was give me a hug and tell me she loved me."

Her reaction led him to tell a few of his closest friends -- about six people -- at school. But he had no plans to let anyone else know or to get involved in a relationship. He knew the school wouldn't approve.

He says he doesn't know whether those half-dozen friends told others or whether he was the talk of the school.

But someone told his Bible teacher.

A few hours after Jeffrey's teacher asked him whether he was gay, his mom got a phone call at home from Rachel Sanders, the school's dean of students.

She said they needed to have a conference -- before Jeffrey could attend the senior retreat set for early the next week. Gload asked whether she needed to bring an attorney, but Sanders told her, "it would not be that kind of conversation," Gload says.

On Sunday afternoon, they arrived on campus. Sanders greeted them warmly and told them Grimm wanted to join them. They went to his office.

Grimm started the conversation, Jeffrey and his mom say.

"It has come to our attention that your son is a homosexual and we'd like to know what you'd like to do about it," he said, according to Jeffrey and his mom.

That's when he provided the three options: help with his "problem," withdrawal or expulsion.

Gload told Grimm, "I don't consider being gay to be a problem."

Jeffrey said he wouldn't withdraw.

"I told them, 'I love this school. I love what I've learned. I'm proud of how I've been able to grow here, especially in my knowledge of the Bible. I don't want to withdraw from this school and I won't withdraw from this school.' "

Gload asked Grimm why her son couldn't simply complete his senior year.

"If you're asking us to accept him, we cannot do that," she says Grimm told her. "We have an image to protect."

That left expulsion.

Jeffrey's mom requested a letter citing the violations of school policy that led to his expulsion. The school handbook requires it, reading, "both he/she and the parents shall be notified in person and in writing as to the reason for the expulsion by the school deans."

Gload's brief letter doesn't provide that.

It reads: "As we discussed, this letter serves as official notice to you that your son, Jeffrey Woodard, is expelled from Jupiter Christian school effective immediately. Please contact Jennifer Ceppo in our enrollment office to facilitate transfer of Jeffrey's records. Please know that we will be praying for you and your family during this transition."

Grimm said he couldn't discuss the letter.

The lawsuit requests both clarification of the school's policy regarding gay and lesbian students and an official explanation of why Jeffrey was expelled. He will need it to apply to colleges, the suit says. Without it, schools might assume he was expelled for violence.

"I just want to know by whose definition of Christianity can you expel someone this way," said W. Trent Steele, attorney for Jeffrey and his mom. "He's a sweet kid, and I think he deserved better than this."

Asking for honesty

Jeffrey has been back to the school once, to pick up his shot records.

He's heard from friends that the rumor around school is that he was kicked out for being gay. His friends are mad, he says, but don't want to comment on the record.

His mom is still outraged.

"For as many years as Jeffrey has gone there, I heard what a wonderful kid he was and a positive role model," she says. "For them to think so highly of him and now just turn their backs on him is very hard."

Gload spent the first week after the expulsion upset and worried about her son's emotional health and where he would finish high school.

Now she just hopes that by speaking out, her family might help another child avoid a similar situation.

"I think this school needs to be honest about who they are," she said. "If I had known this was their policy, I never would have sent him there this year. That was the most devastating thing I've seen him go through."

[Japher]

That is lame for the school to kick him out because he is gay, but I hear of a lot of Catholic schools doing this now a days, even if you aren't gay but say your mom is...

However, Jeffery says he doesn't lie, that is a lie. He lied to himself and his friends about being gay. You'd think the Catholic church would like this hypocracy... I wonder if you molest 5 year olds or alter boys if it is o-kay to continue to go to school there? Probably

[Ben Kenobi]

Jamski:

Why did you leave? Glad to hear you've calmed down a bit. It's amazing what a good meal can do.

[Ben Kenobi]

Asher,

The church offered him a chance to go to counselling. To be consistent with their faith that has to be an option for anyone who is homosexual.

Secondly, no one is forcing him to attend the church school. If he can't meet the terms, he ought not to go.

Freedom of association.