Atheists offended by teddy bears...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Asher,

The church offered him a chance to go to counselling. To be consistent with their faith that has to be an option for anyone who is homosexual.

Secondly, no one is forcing him to attend the church school. If he can't meet the terms, he ought not to go.

Freedom of associate Asher.

I reckon you missed the important part of the school being funded by public money, no?

Freedom of assication is fine and dandy, but the second the school accepts public funding it should not discriminate against students who want to be there simply because somebody told the bible teacher he was gay...

[Ben Kenobi]

So now we get to the real issue, not whether the child is being discriminated against but whether vouchers ought to be permitted in the US.

I say the vouchers do not violate the establishment clause because they are offered to all religious schools, be they Jewish, Christian or Muslim.

[FrustratedPoet]

Is "freedom of association" shorthand for "keep those queers away from me"?

Whatever happened to the gay kid's freedom of association? Shouldn't he be allowed to associate with whomever he chooses (catholics, for example)?

[Kuciwalker]

Well, you are both misusing the term.

Freedom of association (actually it is assembly) means that the government cannot prohibit people from peacefully assembling. Doesn't mean that you have a right to "assemble" with someone (that person doesn't have to "assemble" with you if they don't want to).

[St Leo]

/me disowns the Maryland splinter group

I am also a pure atheist and this is irrational madness.

[Lincoln]

This thread is about teddy bears. Don't change the subject Asher. Do you object to cuddly, furry teddy bears placed along the road to honor dead children by Christians like mother Teresa or not? Yes__ No__

[Lincoln]

Okay, I might have stretched the point some...

[Ben Kenobi]

FP:

Sure, so long as they also want to associate with him. Again, no one forced the kid to associate with the Catholics.

Skywalker, yes it is assembly, but I believe both assembly and association are used interchangeably.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Lincoln
This thread is about teddy bears. Don't change the subject Asher. Do you object to cuddly, furry teddy bears placed along the road to honor dead children by Christians like mother Teresa or not? Yes__ No__

It was a counter-troll. You showed a ridiculous atheist group, I showed a ridiculous christian group.

The fun part is many Christians see the teddy bear things as ridiculous but not the gay thing. C'est la vie.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Asher,

The church offered him a chance to go to counselling. To be consistent with their faith that has to be an option for anyone who is homosexual.

Secondly, no one is forcing him to attend the church school. If he can't meet the terms, he ought not to go.

Freedom of association.

More krap from you, huh?

Homosexuals do not need counseling because being gay is inherently unstable or unhealthy.

If a gay guy or a lesbian needs counseling, it's more likely to help themselves come to terms with who they really are, and overcoming the fears of being who they are in a homophobic society.

[Kuciwalker]

I agree completely. Moreover, freedom of assembly doesn't even come into it, unlike Ben claimed.

[Ben Kenobi]

I showed a ridiculous christian group.

Eh, a Catholic school = ridiculous? Good luck getting the same agreement among Christians as Lincoln got among Atheists.

Homosexuals do not need counseling because being gay is inherently unstable or unhealthy.

If a gay guy or a lesbian needs counseling, it's more likely to help themselves come to terms with who they really are, and overcoming the fears of being who they are in a homophobic society.

If you recall my earlier post I never said anything about instability or health. Do gay people have special problems, that would cause you to mention these points?

I said that to remain consistent with their religious teachings they ought to offer counselling to anyone who is gay.

Skywalker, you have not rebutted my point on the constitutionality of school vouchers. I suggest you do so before further commenting on the application of freedom of assembily.

[Kuciwalker]

People can assemble with whom they please. That has NOTHING to do with "can a catholic school that recieves money from the government discriminate based on their religious teachings"?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Eh, a Catholic school = ridiculous? Good luck getting the same agreement among Christians as Lincoln got among Atheists.

A Christian school that:
1) Asks a student if he is gay
2) Then immediately expels said student

is incredibly ridiculous.

I already predicted the brainwashed Christians would not see why this is ridiculous, but that's because you guys have no concept of scope and you're fundamentally biased to your "faith" and probably incapable of thinking about this rationally.

[Ben Kenobi]

that recieves money from the government discriminate based on their religious teachings"?

Now we are back to vouchers. Is a religious school allowed to teach what it believes, and allowed to act in accordance to those beliefs? Yes. Should these religious schools receive vouchers from the federal government? That's the question I put up. Constitutionally, there is nothing wrong with vouchers.

Asher:

2) Then immediately expels said student

I suggest you reread your source. He was not immediately banned, he was offered the choice to go to counselling and to remain in the school.