$246 million lawsuit against makers of GTA3!

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Osweld

Notice how I said "the biggest determining factor" instead of "the only factor"?

But regardles, since the children aren't considered responsible by law, that means their parents have to be. Otherwise, who the hell's responsible? (oh right, the video game. )

That doesnt thereby follow. If a minor commits a criminal act, they are not (usually) treated as adults, but the parents are not necessarily held responsible, absent evidence of specific fault.

BTW, if you sell alcohol to a minor, YOU'RE subject to criminal prosecution, NOT the minors parents.


Did the parents fail as parents? what were the kids like before they played Vice City? etc - are questions we cant answer from the article quoted.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Osweld
Aparently their parents aren't considered personally responsible, either.

Of course, they are not in the dough.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


That doesnt thereby follow. If a minor commits a criminal act, they are not (usually) treated as adults, but the parents are not necessarily held responsible, absent evidence of specific fault.

Well, that's bull. Someone gets shot and no one's responsible?

BTW, if you sell alcohol to a minor, YOU'RE subject to criminal prosecution, NOT the minors parents.

How is that relevant?

I'm assuming you're using that as a comparison to GTA. But it was either the parents who bought the game for the kid, or the store that sold it to them. Certainly not the game producers (it is, as you said, rated mature after all). But that doesn't really matter, anyways, because a video game can't turn saints into serial killers.

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
BTW, if you sell alcohol to a minor, YOU'RE subject to criminal prosecution, NOT the minors parents.

It isn't illegal to sell these games to minors. Maybe it should be but until then....

If the game has an advisory age rating and the parents ignored it and allowed the kids to have the game before they reached the advised age then they did not exert the control they could have done and have some responsibility. Assuming the courts find against the game in the first place.

As it is the companies being sued haven't broken any law, except the crime of having more money than somebody else.

Afterthought: Haven't we been here many times before. I can remember a rock group, Judas Priest?, being sued over a claim their music inspired a couple of kids to go out and shoot themselves about 20 years ago. The parents lost but it seems the lawyers never give up.

[:) Smiley]

It's time they crezte a third age category between adult and minor. There's a simply no way one blanket category can cover both 2-year olds and 16 year olds accurately.

[Dinner]

This reminds me of the cretins who watch the TV show Jack-Ass and then try to remake the stunts. There's a big warning at the beginning of each show and the parents have no one to blame but their kids for being stupid and themselves for not providing proper parental supervision.

Didn't some trailer park trash sue MTV back in the 90's when their kids tried to remake a chain saw scene from Beavis & Butthead? If I remember correctly their case got tossed out of court.

[DinoDoc]

Isn't there some sort of sanction the judge can put on these people for clogging the court system with this baseless pile of crap?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by CerberusIV


It isn't illegal to sell these games to minors. Maybe it should be but until then....

If the game has an advisory age rating and the parents ignored it and allowed the kids to have the game before they reached the advised age then they did not exert the control they could have done and have some responsibility. Assuming the courts find against the game in the first place.

.

Now these are good points. Before we hold the game makers or retailers responsible, we need to ask how the parents allowed their kids to play a game with a mature rating.

Theres also some issues with how the rating system is enforced. Unlike the film industry (another voluntary rating system) retailers generally dont check ages when they sell mature rated games. Now since its all voluntary they dont have to. Some congressmen a few years back wanted to change that, but i believe it was stopped. In part due to industry lobbying.

BTW, just cause its legal, doesnt mean theyre free from liability. I realize its different from selling alcohol though - i mentioned that only to show that their can be liability for a minors actions other than the minor and the parent.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Smiley
It's time they crezte a third age category between adult and minor. There's a simply no way one blanket category can cover both 2-year olds and 16 year olds accurately.

well at least here in the states we effectively do that. You need to be 21 to buy alcohol, but only 18 to buy tobacco (id reverse that myself) You need to be 18 to vote or enter a contract. Age of consent for marriage varies by state from 16 to 18. Age to drop out of school is usually 16. Age to drive varies from 14 to 17 etc.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Osweld


Well, that's bull. Someone gets shot and no one's responsible?



How is that relevant?

I'm assuming you're using that as a comparison to GTA. But it was either the parents who bought the game for the kid, or the store that sold it to them. Certainly not the game producers (it is, as you said, rated mature after all). But that doesn't really matter, anyways, because a video game can't turn saints into serial killers.

Its quite possinle that the age rating shields the producer and exposes the retailer - or as discussed below, that the parents are at fault for buying the game.

Re: saints.
Most human beings are not saints. I'm not. My kid is not. The question is whether they can turn ordinary, or even slightly worse than ordinary, impulsive teen age boys into serial killers. I will agree that the evidence tends that they dont - they increase aggression levels, but only marginally. Which would make them similar to violent films in that regard.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
The question is whether they can turn ordinary, or even slightly worse than ordinary, impulsive teen age boys into serial killers.

They can't. If a kid is that susceptable to influence, video games are going to be the last of his worries.

they increase aggression levels, but only marginally.

Video games don't do that, either. It's possible that someone will come away from a game feeling more aggresive, but that's their reaction to it - not some sort of subminal messaging from the game. Alot of people get aggresive while driving cars or playing sports, aswell. I've even seen some pretty damned scary bicyclers and joggers in my time.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Osweld


They can't. If a kid is that susceptable to influence, video games are going to be the last of his worries.



Video games don't do that, either. It's possible that someone will come away from a game feeling more aggresive, but that's their reaction to it - not some sort of subminal messaging from the game. Alot of people get aggresive while driving cars or playing sports, aswell. I've even seen some pretty damned scary bicyclers and joggers in my time.

thats the "its just adrenaline/arousal" argument. One study compared a violent game (it was either a shooter, or GTA, i forget which) against I think Myst. they found that BOTH games increased arousal,etc but that only the violent one increased aggressiveness.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


thats the "its just adrenaline/arousal" argument. One study compared a violent game (it was either a shooter, or GTA, i forget which) against I think Myst. they found that BOTH games increased arousal,etc but that only the violent one increased aggressiveness.

Who'd get aroused from playing myst?

But I don't see how this is very groundbreaking, or even relevant. Who'd of thunk that people tend to get more aggresive while playing shooters then puzzle games? This doesn't change the fact that it's the person's reaction to it, not the game.

Very few people play vice city and all of a sudden feel an urge to go outside and kill people, someone who's already capable of murder might think 'hey, that looks fun, maybe I'll try it' but it's certainly not the game that made him do it, because he would of already had to been capable of it.

I can play games without geting aggresive, and I can reconize when a game is winding me up and shrug it off. I'm about as anti-war and anti-military as you can get but I subscribe to WW2online, a game where you take on the role of a soldier in a war, and not be bothered by it at all. It's just a game. Heck, I hate cars almost as much as I hate guns, but I still enjoyed driving around Vice City shooting things up and geting in high-speed chases. How is this possible if games possess such influence?

And back to my comparison to cars and sports - where's the lawsuits against Ford for road rage?

[Snotty]

The only reason they had to go and shoot people together is because GTA3 has no multiplayer mode.

No MP sure made me want to shoot people....

[lord of the mark]

from about.com


"The second study by the authors looked at the effects of actual video game violence. Subjects were college students who played either a violent video game (Wolfenstein 3D) or a non-violent game (Myst). These games had been chosen in a pilot study because they differed only in the degree of violence in the game and not on the amount of physiological arousal that they produced. Following video game play the students took some tests and participated in a "Competitive reaction time task" where they were told that they were playing against another student. They were told that they could blast the other student with a noise if they won, and that they could vary the intensity and duration of the blast.

Students in both groups blasted their opponent longer and louder following trials when they had lost and their opponent had just blasted them. Students who had played Wolfenstein 3D blasted their opponent longer and louder on such trials than students who had played Myst. Female students blasted their opponents longer and louder on all trials than male students.

The authors final conclusions are best stated by quoting the article. They state:

The present research demonstrated that in both a correlational investigation using self-reports of real-world aggressive behaviors and an experimental investigation using a standard, objective laboratory measure of aggression, violent video game play was positively related to increases in aggressive behavior. In the laboratory, college students who played a violent video game behaved more aggressively toward an opponent than did students who had played a nonviolent video game. Outside the laboratory, students who reported playing more violent video games over a period of years also engaged in more aggressive behavior in their own lives. Both types of studies–correlational—real delinquent behaviors and experimental—laboratory aggressive behaviors have their strengths and weaknesses. The convergence of findings across such disparate methods lends considerable strength to the main hypothesis that exposure to violent video games can increase aggressive behavior. (Anderson & Dill, 2000) "