Peace Is Sexy

[Whaleboy]

I'm sure the Dominion of Texas will survive

[SlowwHand]

Not a problem. Nooooo problemo.

[Whaleboy]

If Iraq was the attacked in that case, then I withdraw that example and accept my error .

My idea is that peace is ideal, and only when attacked can one use force, and only in the self-defence capacity, remove the ability of the aggressor to make war on you. I'd like to reach all aggressors and stop attacks full stop. Nice dream eh? Still all wars are an utterly useless waste of human life, never mind that defensive endeavors are logically legitimate in the context of nationstates.

[Whaleboy]

Not a problem. Nooooo problemo

I'd love to go to Texas....

[SlowwHand]

Come on down, Elijah. Always welcome.

This? "defensive endeavors are logically legitimate in the context of nationstates."

Convince Michael of this.
I know it. Longstreet knew it.
Michael likes to storm the castle though.

[Whaleboy]

See ya next year!

Don't know the people you're talking about, but people who disagree with me can errr... go somewhere bad elijah moderates himself, I don't care! As long as I have my say, then I'm good, what people do with that is their business.

[realpolitic]

You can't leave out the known factor that there will always be bullies in the world.
No, not like the U.S.; I mean like Hussein, Bin Laden, etc.

The US trained Bin Laden, supplied VX gas to Saddam, and trained him in the use of Anthrax, and McVeigh was an passionate American sargent. We are our own worst enemy.

[SlowwHand]

I'm nailing MtG's hide to the wall, referencing James Longstreet of the Confederate States of America, and Longstreet's desire to conduct business differently at this place in Pennsylvania long ago.

Michael doesn't agree, excessively.

[Whaleboy]

realpolitik: I don't think thats fair. The USA had no idea that it would come and bite them back in the ass. We can't foresee the outcomes of all our actions, they were doing what they thought was best at the time, now we can argue about that, not the unforeseen outcomes.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by realpolitic

The US trained Bin Laden, supplied VX gas to Saddam, and trained him in the use of Anthrax, and McVeigh was an passionate American sargent. We are our own worst enemy.

Which is exactly why I say the USA should be allied with Britain and Israel, and go slowly from there.
Again, "the enemy of my enmey is my friend" thoughts are utter crap.

[Whaleboy]

hmmm, I learned that I'd best keep my nose very much out of the civil war stuff...

[realpolitic]

Originally posted by elijah
realpolitik: I don't think thats fair. The USA had no idea that it would come and bite them back in the ass. We can't foresee the outcomes of all our actions, they were doing what they thought was best at the time, now we can argue about that, not the unforeseen outcomes.

"He's an SOB, but he's our SOB" -LBJ

We supported Bin Laden, when we could have supported more moderate Muslims, because he was the fastest path to beating the Soviets in Afganistan.

We gave Saddam WMDs, knowing how brutal he was.

Hateful people tend to just find more people to hate, it isn't rocket science.

As for McVeigh, the connection is more vague. He said his allegence shifted after realizing the Gulf War was about oil. Here we lied to a "killing machine" and assumed he wouldn't do anything.

[Ben Kenobi]

only when attacked can one use force, and only in the self-defence capacity, remove the ability of the aggressor to make war on you.

So an eye for an eye, Elijah?

That's still not pacifism. Pacifism means not retaliating when attacked.

[Whaleboy]

So an eye for an eye, Elijah?

No, otherwise I would support all of these post 9/11 bloodlettings. I'm saying that when ones survival is in question one can defend oneself. Same goes for an individual. I'm talking about a situation like the summer of 1940 in Britain or some bloke giving me a right hook.

Pacifism is about not having wars. Put simply, my position is no war except when it is your only hope for survival, and even then it still sucks!

RP: They were asking for it admittedly, but in specific cases like this, we can't really blame the USA for those men, only as part of a general pattern.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by realpolitic
Here we lied to a "killing machine" and assumed he wouldn't do anything.

I call BS.