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Religion: What is the one true faith?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Vesayen
    Let me re-phrase, if Hell exists then God is the biggest sociopath in existance
    Especially if God choses who gets into Hell and Heaven according to the criteria Jack Chick always describes in his Comics
    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Proteus_MST


      You mean there are synagogues, which give Alcohol for free at certain times?
      Must I be a jew to get it or do they give it also to people of other confessions?

      Most synagogues will give provide a small amount of sweet kosher wine at the end of sabbath services, to say a prayer over. Some, generally orthodox ones, will also provide a small amoung of whiskey. They wont check your religion, but its kinda expected that you have just sat through services, and not come wandering in for a drink. If you seem to be an alcoholic who sits through a long service for a free drink, they will try to get you help, or so I would hope,
      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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      • #63
        Like I said a few posts up, the church began in the East. The West only developed the traditions of "catholicism" around the Dark Ages. Relative newcomers compared to us, if we're talking about who's the oldest and nothing else.
        Catholicism was around long before the Dark Ages.

        And if the Eastern part of the church was the "true" church, then why did they follow the Pope (the Roman one, that is), for centuries before finally splitting?

        Also, wasn't the word "Catholic" already used in the Creed of Nicea, in 325, when the Arrian church was denounced?

        "We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten of the Father, that is, of the substance [ek tes ousias] of the Father, God of God, light of light, true God of true God, begotten not made, of the same substance with the Father [homoousion to patri], through whom all things were made both in heaven and on earth; who for us men and our salvation descended, was incarnate, and was made man, suffered and rose again the third day, ascended into heaven and cometh to judge the living and the dead. And in the Holy Ghost. Those who say: There was a time when He was not, and He was not before He was begotten; and that He was made our of nothing (ex ouk onton); or who maintain that He is of another hypostasis or another substance [than the Father], or that the Son of God is created, or mutable, or subject to change, [them] the Catholic Church anathematizes. "

        More so, the Pope in Rome could very well be seen as the succesor to Jesus himself, though I do not particulary feel inclined to defend church doctrines I don't feel comfortable with. Still, their claim remains the strongest.
        Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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        • #64
          I worship God, the Jewish God, not the Christian God.
          You worship the vengeful God? The biggest mass murderer in history (judging from the Old Testament)?
          Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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          • #65
            The Pope was traditionally "first among equals," and had no real power. He was given extra respect for being the successor to Peter, but that's it. The big split happened when he got grabby for more. We've always been democratic, like the church was in the beginning.
            "Catholic," BTW, means universal, as in one church everywhere. The religion is properly called Roman Catholic.
            The Church in the West came into being a few short years after the Eastern one, but for a good few centuries the two halves were more or less identical. The liturgical differences and customs began to appear shortly before the dark ages, and almost all the doctrinal issues that distinguish the Catholics from us were invented after 1054. We share a common origin, but it's pretty clear that their ways grew and changed out of ours, not vice versa.
            1011 1100
            Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Saint Marcus


              You worship the vengeful God? The biggest mass murderer in history (judging from the Old Testament)?

              According to Rambam, literal interpretation of G-d as "vengeful", "angry" or holding other human emotions are anthropomorphisms, and thus idolatry.

              To understant Judaism you need to read the Hebrew scriptures (not the "old" testament) with Jewish commentaries and traditional understandings. Judaisms G-d is indeed one of mercy and love, despite the charictures of Judaism certain people have made over the years.
              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

              Comment


              • #67
                Countertroll

                Originally posted by Saint Marcus


                You worship the vengeful God? The biggest mass murderer in history (judging from the Old Testament)?
                Oh no, that place is reserved for the Catholic church.
                urgh.NSFW

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                • #68
                  Re: Countertroll

                  Originally posted by Azazel


                  Oh no, that place is reserved for the Catholic church.
                  Jup, I think he´s correct (thinkin about Witchhunts, Crusades and Conquistadores converting Heathen with Fire and Sword)
                  Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                  Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    almost all the doctrinal issues that distinguish the Catholics from us were invented after 1054.
                    Almost? What differences originated before the split in 1054?

                    I guess what it comes down to is the Catholic church claims an unbroken succession from the first Apostles, to today, something that we Protestants do not have.

                    What does the Orthodox church teach about the succession, or is that not a difference between the two churches?
                    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      We share a common origin, but it's pretty clear that their ways grew and changed out of ours, not vice versa.
                      Our ways did not grew and change out of yours. Your ways, as well as ours, grew and changed out of a common heritage. And in the end, -you- left us, not the other way around.

                      He was given extra respect for being the successor to Peter, but that's it.
                      As you admit, the Pope is the successor to Peter (who is the successor to Jesus). Doesn't that legitimize the case for Roman Catholicism being the one continuing church that can be traced back to Jesus himself?
                      Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Saint Marcus
                        The Anglican church has those same things. What do you think makes Lutheranism "better" or "more right" than Anglicanism?

                        (note: I'm asking about English Anglicanism and Continental Lutheranism here, not American spin-off churches).
                        Hey! The Protestant Episcopal Church is way ahead of the Church of England in terms of social progress. We're ahead in terms of our treatment of women and gays.

                        To Episcopalians all Christians are Catholics, just not necessarily Roman Catholics. Howse about that?
                        "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Er, "grew and changed"? What's this change you're talking about? We're Orthodox. We're not exactly well-known for changing with the times. I don't believe we ever have, come to think of it. All of *our* ecumenical councils just clarified earlier statements to stomp out heresies. Remaining constant is our whole claim to fame. Rome, on the other hand, barely even resembles the ancient church.
                          And it wasn't us leaving you. A cardinal excommunicated the Patriarch, in the middle of the Pascha service, in 1054. The other three dioces sided with Constantinople, and Rome was excommunicated in turn by all four together. It's usually portrayed as an even split, but the issue was your side getting grabby for power it hadn't earned.
                          The Pope is ostensibly the successor of Peter, yes, but frankly, Peter was Bishop of Antioch a long time before he was Bishop of Rome so it's a very fine distinction. Given the current state of the church, it strikes me as very similar to calling Jefferson Davis the successor of George Washington. You gave up your rights to superiority-not that you ever had them-when you turned crooked.
                          In response to Ben, the "almost" was in reference to the differing stances on the iconoclast heresy (the one case I know of where Rome convinced us they were right), leavened vs. unleavened bread for communion, and other doctrinal issues mostly tied to liturgical custom. We consider ourselves as equally entitled to apostolic succession as the Catholics. We consider them younger brothers mostly because of their status as heretics.
                          1011 1100
                          Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Proteus_MST


                            Especially if God choses who gets into Hell and Heaven according to the criteria Jack Chick always describes in his Comics
                            Wouldn't it be cool if Mr. Chick went to a hell of his own design?
                            "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              You gave up your rights to superiority-not that you ever had them-when you turned crooked.
                              Before I go into the rest of your post...

                              ...there are hundreds of Protestant churches who claim the same thing.
                              Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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                              • #75
                                We consider ourselves as equally entitled to apostolic succession as the Catholics.
                                Okay.

                                Could Orthodox priests conduct a mass, and Roman Catholics would be able to participate? How about vice-versa?

                                We Protestants aren't allowed either, we cannot participate in a Catholic mass, nor does the Pope allow Catholics to participate in a Protestant eucharist/ communion.
                                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                                "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                                Comment

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