Rugby World Cup 2003 - Crunch Time!

[Andydog]

Originally posted by Havak
I’m getting increasingly convinced we ARE watching different teams!

You obviously watch the ABs through a pair of pint glasses, complete with that gluggy Bitter sediment pasted on the bottom. Here is a quote from Planet Rugby:

The athletic lock, [Williams], competed favourably against his more experienced rivals on the tour to Europe last year, earning the admiration of England skipper Martin Johnson who presented the young Aucklander with his Test jersey after the Test at Twickenham.

Stick that in your pork pie and smoke it!

[edit: name change]

[Havak]

Fine. Except we were talking about Ali Williams the Lock were we not ? And Johnson nearly always gives his Jersey to one of the opposing locks - it means absolute diddly squat except that Williams asked first. This is nicely re-inforced by the lack of a supporting "Williams is great" quote I think

It illustrates nicely that Professional writers can spin what they want out of unrelated facts.

There is an infamous occassion (after last Lions test in 2001) where Jonno refused the Planks request for his Jersey. Why? Because he had already promised it to the tree hugger (whose last game that was)! Finbar might remember this as the Sydney Morning Herald went all guns blazing for Jonno over it - even going so far as to quote a tearful mother of the plank saying what an evil man Jonno was.

My point, and yes there is one, is that I don't necessarily trust what any sports writer says. My own intelligence tells me this PR writer was stretching his creative thinking considerably.

Edit: For my opening paragraph to make sense please note andydog originally named a young hooker. Further note that Jonno does not normally go around praising young hookers.

[Andydog]

Yeah I meant to type Williams, had to rush that post, this friggen project has me running off my feet.

Anyhow, it sounds like you're speculating a lot there. You don't know if Williams asked first, and it's hardly surprising that Johno often gives his jeary away to his opposite number, I would expect that to be the norm.

Just remember we came within three of beating you matey, at full strength. Williams was one of the new youngsters on the scene and had a great series. He has a lot of tallent, and has been improving steadily since then. And that my friend is no fantasy.

[Havak]

I know whats it like to be busy at work.

You came within three of beating us all right - in your home patch and with us missing several current first choice players (Flatman and Vickery were missing injured, Corry and Dawson are now seemingly first choices, Robbo is back at fullback whereas Lewsey was then.). Could I be a sports writer maybe?

I'm not actually speculating by the way - J gives his shirt to the player who asks him first usually. I still need a quote relating to Williams to buy that J rates him. I know he rates Jack - because I've actually heard him say that you see.

For your own part you are dealing in non quantifiable measures - 'talent' and 'improvement' - but you are not giving the base measure for either. For all I know the improvement could have been from 'dire' to 'poor'?

Anyway you clearly rate him and I'm not really interested in doing the lad down any futher given he does look set to miss the WRC. I wanted Lewsey to get chance to say 'hello' to him again.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
...Jonno refused the Planks request...

The Planks?

Who does that refer to? Does it mean "thick as a plank"?

[Havak]

The meaning is correct It was applied to a specific Australian supposedly by a specific Englishman (but actually by his welsh ghost writer).

The Australian was the out of favour Justin Harrison, the Englishman Austin Healey and the welshman Eddie Butler.

Finbars spleen may be ready to vent as I write...

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
The meaning is correct It was applied to a specific Australian supposedly by a specific Englishman (but actually by his welsh ghost writer).

The Australian was the out of favour Justin Harrison, the Englishman Austin Healey and the welshman Eddie Butler.

Finbars spleen may be ready to vent as I write...

So is it now used to refer to Australians in general? "Planks" ...I like it.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Finbars spleen may be ready to vent as I write...

Not at all. Suffice to say that the Plank made his country's WRC squad, while V.D. didn't. By V.D., of course, I mean Verbal Diarrhoea rather than the well known Social Disease. Though given the very public evidence of his complete and utter lack of judgement, the Social Disease obviously isn't beyond the realms either.

That aside, there was a bizarre little story in this morning's press. Rob Howley, Welshman, halfback on the last Lions tour, retired from international rugby after the 6 Nations. Now he fancies an international comeback with the Lions -v- the ABs in 2005. Yet representing Wales in the WRC held no interest. Obviously a dreamer.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Could I be a sports writer maybe?

No. You verge on literate.

[Havak]

So is it now used to refer to Australians in general? "Planks"

Only the large aggressive ones.

Not at all. Suffice to say that the Plank made his country's WRC squad, while V.D. didn't.

And bizarrely again there is more chance of V.D making an impact on the RWC than there is of Justin so doing. Austin will end up out there – I’m sure of it. We are bound to lose players to the Boks – whose coach and team manager will no doubt then accuse lads with broken necks of being ‘sissies’?

Yet representing Wales in the WRC held no interest. Obviously a dreamer.

It’s a little more complicated than it seems on face value – and not beyond the realms.

He used to be welsh captain. He was stripped of this in fairly humiliating fashion by the tweedle dee/tweedle dum regime at Wales and then criticised publicly for loss of form. Both are evil things for a coach to do to a player – and clearly I would suggest these are behind his lack of ambition to be seen in a welsh shirt. Tweedle dee is long gone and little missed but tweedle dum still have the helm. Until he gets sacked (post RWC?) Howley would be unlikely to consider a welsh return.

But he is only 32 – was instrumental in Wasps championship drive last season and is playing as well as he ever has (and he is talented – another boy who was wasted in Wales). In 2001 he definitely edged the English boys at scrummy – he may still do so (I’d like to see them face off in a direct comparison before being sure). It’s possible you know…

No. You verge on literate.

Only verge?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Austin will end up out there – I’m sure of it.

I've circulated his photo to the various entry points into the country.

I would suggest these are behind his lack of ambition to be seen in a welsh shirt. Tweedle dee is long gone and little missed but tweedle dum still have the helm. Until he gets sacked (post RWC?) Howley would be unlikely to consider a welsh return.

Mmmm. Well, some rise above these things and get on with it, some don't.

Only verge?

I might be more charitable after you don't win the WRC.

[Havak]

On which note I would really like Tamerlin to explain this outreageous lack of NH solidarity

Apparently we are only going there to 'enjoy ourselves' according to Woodward anyway. The things coaches say these days - is he fooling anyone?

[Andydog]

Originally posted by Havak
You came within three of beating us all right - in your home patch and with us missing several current first choice players (Flatman and Vickery were missing injured, Corry and Dawson are now seemingly first choices, Robbo is back at fullback whereas Lewsey was then.). Could I be a sports writer maybe?

Okay, I'll take a nibble. That June game in Wellington 15-13 to England was rubbish. Dickinson refereed appallingly, dishing out 33 penalties and effectively robbed the game of any flow whatsoever. We got the only try, with a new team starting at the beginning of our season, when you were at the end of yours. Our No 8 So'oialo was ruled to have made a double movement after taking a quick tap near the try line, another bollocks call that robbed us of another try.

England won because they showed the value firstly of experience, but also of goal kicking. Wilko kicked four from five, plus a drop goal, for all of his side's 15 points, Carlos Spencer struggled in the swirling conditions, landing just three from seven.

England showed enormous character, but in terms of playing actual rugby and putting together phases and implementing patterns, neither side was able to get past the first phase as Dickinson whistled the house down.

Nobody could walk away from that game and proclaim who was the better side.

Yuck, this bait tastes of pork, I think I'll spit it out now.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
On which note I would really like Tamerlin to explain this outreageous lack of NH solidarity

*hums La Marseillaise*

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Andydog
Nobody could walk away from that game and proclaim who was the better side.

Havak, England must grind the AB to dust in Final.