Rugby World Cup 2003 - Crunch Time!

[finbar]

Originally posted by flipside
I was reading the paper yesterday and in it David Campese was discussing his current world first XV.


Playing fast and loose is key to forward thinking

I was interested at how he choose a young, ball handling, set of forwards.

IMHO an exciting blend but not necessarily able to cope in a tight forward battle. The bonus abilities are great but I think that some core forward skills are performed better by other players.

Well, he's picking to his own criteria - established in his opening paragraphs. You may be right, though.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
Finbar risks a heart attack if he reads this article, the names of David Campese and Martin Johnson on the same web page and the first praising the second could be too much for him.

I've never questioned J****'s skills. Only his looks.

BTW, did I tell you Mrs finbar bought a Peugeot 307? Mighty fine car. Except, typically, les grenouilles screwed up some of the interior design. The cruise control lever is 3cm away from the indicator lever on the same side of the steering column. You have to take your eyes off the road to watch which lever you're reaching for. Oh, and if you have the driver's seat arm rest down, you have to reach around it to get to the hand brake. Typical of les grenouilles to get 99.8% of something absolute right and 0.2% totally wrong!

[flipside]

Originally posted by finbar


Well, he's picking to his own criteria - established in his opening paragraphs. You may be right, though.

Yeah, he is picking the forwards to a criteria that he has established for us, you are totally right.

My kinda loose point is that to play the kind of rugby that Campo is talking about, you need to get a firm platform from which to do it.

Is it possible to have this integration between forwards and backs? What if the forwards may not be able to secure enough ball to do it?

The basic thing I was always taught was, WIN the ball and THEN EXPRESS your personality.

The last paragraph where he believes that " as a pack" this team is the best is the one I really would question.

I think against a good forward team that Campo's team would struggle. Can players express themselves without a platform?

[Havak]

Look at the cricket ranking system that recently had South Africa the top Test nation in the world - in front of Australia - despite Australia having whitewashed South Africa a few months before.

Actually I don't place great store in the rankings beyond their wind up value - but this reference is totally irrelevent becuase in rugby the nation topping the rankings has not been whitewashed by the teams below it - or even beaten by it's nearest rivals in a very long time.

As Tamerlin will tell you only France have beaten England in two calendar years. Have I mentioned that before?

It's coming up to half time in Tiger's visit to Saracens and we lead 3-0. It's a terrible terrible game that has been brightened up only by Jonno's younger brother getting into a scuffle (the Saracens players fault obviously).

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
I've never questioned J****'s skills. Only his looks.

Sounds like an irrational dislike.

BTW, did I tell you Mrs finbar bought a Peugeot 307?

No, I didn't knew you could find french cars in Australia.

Peugeot Mighty fine car. Except, typically, les grenouilles screwed up some of the interior design. The cruise control lever is 3cm away from the indicator lever on the same side of the steering column. You have to take your eyes off the road to watch which lever you're reaching for. Oh, and if you have the driver's seat arm rest down, you have to reach around it to get to the hand brake. Typical of les grenouilles to get 99.8% of something absolute right and 0.2% totally wrong!

Remember the last sentence of Some like it hot:

- Nobody's perfect



I suppose this will not be considered a problem anymore as soon as you get used to these "odd" features.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
As Tamerlin will tell you only France have beaten England in two calendar years. Have I mentioned that before?

I am not sure the latest victory against an English B-team can be considered as significant.

It's coming up to half time in Tiger's visit to Saracens and we lead 3-0. It's a terrible terrible game that has been brightened up only by Jonno's younger brother getting into a scuffle (the Saracens players fault obviously).

To Finbar's delight a new Jonno will replace the current Jonno when he retires. Many years of teasings in perspective.

[Caligastia]

I was just watching FSW's analysis of Pool A, and they were showing highlights of Australia's game against England earlier this year. This has to rate up there as one of the most inane comments made by a rugby commentator. After England scored their first try, the Aussie commentator says "It was all about letting the ball do the work".

I'm sure England will go far if they continue to "let the ball do the work".

[finbar]

Originally posted by flipside
I think against a good forward team that Campo's team would struggle. Can players express themselves without a platform?

I think you have to bear in mind that Campo's mind can sometimes, um, work in mysterious ways. He's picked a pack to support his thesis. And Campo's thesis, to Campo, is always right. To Campo, there is never any alternative. So, in Campo's mind, his chosen pack will win the ball every time as a precursor to spreading it around.

OTOH, in terms of acquaintanceship, reality and the workings of Campo's mind are barely on nodding terms. You're right - a team needs a platform beore it can express itself. BTW, that's exactly my concern about the ABs over the next couple of months. Do they have the platform against the best opposition?

But I digress. You could pick a stronger pack than Campo's. Keith Wood at hooker, for starters, would eat Mealamu. In the front row, Meeuws is used off the AB bench as an impact player and Campo has picked him for that attribute. Meeuws' compatriot, Somerville, is a stronger scrummager. I don't have a real problem with Campo's second row. There are a number of good locks around who could partner J****. I also think that J**** is the key to this pack, just as he's the key to England's pack. His sheer presence, strength and nouse counts for much. He will lift those around him.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


Actually I don't place great store in the rankings beyond their wind up value - but this reference is totally irrelevent becuase in rugby the nation topping the rankings has not been whitewashed by the teams below it - or even beaten by it's nearest rivals in a very long time.

Precisely. Which is why I pointed out that the top two rugby teams in the world currently identify themselves without the need for convoluted arcane arithmetical formulae.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
It's coming up to half time in Tiger's visit to Saracens and we lead 3-0. It's a terrible terrible game that has been brightened up only by Jonno's younger brother getting into a scuffle (the Saracens players fault obviously).

Ending up at 19-all. How did Taine Randell play? I still think the ABs will miss his experience.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


Sounds like an irrational dislike.

Any port in a storm.

No, I didn't knew you could find french cars in Australia.

They're bloody everywhere. And why not? They're superior to Australian-made. The Japanese finish theirs better, but the Europeans have more character.

Remember the last sentence of Some like it hot:

- Nobody's perfect

One of the great last lines in screenwriting history!

I suppose this will not be considered a problem anymore as soon as you get used to these "odd" features.

Well, it's Mrs finbar's car, and I only drive it occasionally. It doesn't bother her. But then she has delicate little hands incapable of spanning the minute gap between the indicator lever and cruise control lever.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


I am not sure the latest victory against an English B-team can be considered as significant.

Again - only this time, in Havak's case - any port in a storm.

To Finbar's delight a new Jonno will replace the current Jonno when he retires. Many years of teasings in perspective.

Mmmmm. J**** J***** has a bit of a ring to it.

[finbar]

Gee, it's really starting to warm up. Today the temp peaked at 32C at 6pm. Now, 6 hours later, it's still 24C. And 34C in Brisbane today. And the weather bureau has predicted higher than average temps all the way through October and November.

[flipside]

I'll bite.

Firstly, Do you really think that it will be the NH forwards and backs that will struggle in the heat ? They won't be the ones that spend all their time tackling.

Secondly, How much do you think that this WC is pivotal in whether rugby becomes a homogenised running game like rugby league or retains it's traditional values and skill sets?
Thirdly, How badly are the Puma's gonna kill the Aus forwards in the opener? I mean, no ball carrier now that Kefu is injured (George Smith is okay though), average line out, weak tight game (Young, Cannon, Darwin)?

[finbar]

Originally posted by flipside
Firstly, Do you really think that it will be the NH forwards and backs that will struggle in the heat ? They won't be the ones that spend all their time tackling.

Everyone will suffer in the heat, just some more than others. The Australians are obviously used to living with heat, but obviously don't play in it. Our "rugby season" finished a few weeks ago. Our cricket season is under way. In fact, the Wallabies just spent a week training in tropical Darwin to acclimatise themselves.

And that's the thing. In Sydney and Brisbane, the humidity factor is high and that's the killer. The temp might only be 25C, but the humidity can be 70+%. In Brisbane, temps will be into the 30s with at least 70% humidity. In fact, arguably, the runners and tacklers, with less body fat, will cope better than the big men - the forwards. It will be like playing in a sauna for them.

Teams based away from Sydney and Brisbane - Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth - will have a much easier time of it. The humidity factor is much much less in those places. Their disadvantage, of course, will be running into the humidity if they make it to the final rounds. Japan - based in Townsville, several hours north of Brisbane, and in the tropics - well, I wish them luck.

Secondly, How much do you think that this WC is pivotal in whether rugby becomes a homogenised running game like rugby league or retains it's traditional values and skill sets?

I don't think the WRC is pivotal at all. Those questions are constantly being posed and answered. In this forum too. Go back and read some of Tamerlin's posts. You shouldn't have trouble finding them, just look for a plethora of s. Frankly, I think the old so-called division between the two styles broke down quite a few years ago. France have always played a mixture of the styles, even if their backline involvement wasn't as structured as the SH style. And England, over the last 5 years, have gradually developed a style that combines the two. Bottom line - IMHO, rugby will never turn into L*****, despite Tamerlin's tirade of s.

Thirdly, How badly are the Puma's gonna kill the Aus forwards in the opener? I mean, no ball carrier now that Kefu is injured (George Smith is okay though), average line out, weak tight game (Young, Cannon, Darwin)?

As I've said many times, barring remarkable improvement, our forwards are always going to struggle against any pack with a touch of class about it. It has for the last couple of years. The problem is, and it extends to elsewhere in the team, our admin has overlooked generational change. Noriega was kept on when obviously past his prime. There were young players coming through - Baxter, Dunning - but they were overlooked until it was too late. Suddenly, they're going to be tossed in at the deep end. I suppose some could argue that there's precedent - Timmy Horan, Jason Little, Phil Kearns - for producing fine players from nowhere with nil experience, but it's gambling. Frankly, I think it's just bad management.

On a completely unrelated note, my urge to escape this sh*thole of a country has just increased with a judicial ruling here that Roquefort cheese cannot be imported from France. Our authorities require milk products to be pasteurised - heated to 72 degrees for no less than 15 seconds to destroy bacteria. Roquefort is heated only to 32 degrees. Despite the fact that no one has been known to have died from eating Roquefort anywhere in the world, it's not allowed into this country. Nor, in fact, into New Zealand. The only two countries with such stupid, archaic regulations.

It's the same sort of medieval thinking that prevents us importing uncooked meats - prosciutto, pancetta, etc - from Italy!

Where's my passport! Move over, Tamerlin, here I come!