Rugby World Cup 2003 - Crunch Time!

[Andydog]

Originally posted by Havak
The issue of NZ naturalising anyone they feel like who shows a talent for rugby has been covered here before. We raised it when Rokocoko (Fijian) was unveiled as a new AB superstar this season. I am totally against it - as far as I can recall none of the kiwis see any problem with it at all. I don't think it troubled Finbar much either - but then the Australians indulge in it too of course.

I think that the policy of 'if you live in NZ, you can play rugby for us' is a good one. I have no problem with it whatsoever. We're a multicultural society, what good is it going to do to exclude a particular race of folk from being in our national team? It goes against all that is NZ.

[Havak]

they were saying it was easier to plan their strategy against England than France, not actually play against them

An interesting distinction on the context - though perhaps not one that so much fun could be extracted from.

Clive is almost certainly indugling in mind games. He knows he can't recover ground with the Aussie media who still hate him for refusing to say "you guys were game" in June. He also knows that implying any other team is your biggest threat is one viable way of possibly getting an unbalanced reaction from the Kiwis.

Just wait until Eddie Jones get properly warmed up -his games are on an entirely different level again.

A Kiwi-England final might be favourite - but an Aussie-France one is quite possible I guess. What a nightmare though - giving France the chance to repeat the failure of four years ago - Tamerlin will be having nightmares.

[Tamerlin]

Tamerlin - it's quite an experience hosting an Irish team isn't it? I bet the club house was still full hours after the game finished?

Right, they are a really a cool bunch of people. I don't know about the club house as the game was played at the Stadium and not the Stade Ernest Wallon but I can tell you the bars and pubs of Toulouse were full of irish supporters well after the game.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
... - but an Aussie-France one is quite possible I guess. What a nightmare though - giving France the chance to repeat the failure of four years ago - Tamerlin will be having nightmares.

Strangely enough I remember a semi-final against players dressed in black but I don't remember a game against Australia. Aren't you imagining this story just to make a fool of me?

[LDiCesare]

I've heard Irish sing the Wild Rover once near Dublin. Great song. I also remember talking about a half drunk violin player who had played the song in a party one year later in France...
I think Basques have many beautiful traditional songs but am not sure they sing them during the matches.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar
Minus 14 - with windchill - one New Years Eve in New York was my crowning glory. God I love cold weather!

I'm sure you found it bracing, but you might find yourself getting sick of it after 5 months. New York weather is too extreme for me - it's either freezing cold or boiling hot.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
I think Basques have many beautiful traditional songs but am not sure they sing them during the matches.

I have never heard them sing these songs during a Rugby game.

[flipside]

Originally posted by Andydog

I think that the policy of 'if you live in NZ, you can play rugby for us' is a good one. I have no problem with it whatsoever. We're a multicultural society, what good is it going to do to exclude a particular race of folk from being in our national team? It goes against all that is NZ.

Yep, you are right on the point.
So, obviously when the SRU goes out of business and no Samoan players come through and NZ can no longer compete with the resources of England, I guess you will be happy that you are a homogenised nation?
I am sorry for this sarcasm, but hopes that it goes just a little way to prove a point that the amount of money that the "have's " have could be better distributed and that if you follow that arguement to it's infinate conclusion that you will end up with a an Eng- N.Z final most times, with France breaking the tradition and Aus. and Ire being the "floater's."
YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT DISCRIMINATION but IMVHO some teams are twisting this arguement and using money as the lever to do it.The professional teams in Eng. are, again in my IMVHO , going down this path and using the "interest's of our team" arguement to do it.
I'm sorry if I am ranting but to me the key isssues of this W.C are this and the homogenisation of the game.
I wish it was just about the play but it is turning into the pay and I wish to see this game of all sizes and creeds reach out rather than be dominated by the richest Commonwealth country.

[flipside]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
I've heard Irish sing the Wild Rover once near Dublin. Great song. I also remember talking about a half drunk violin player who had played the song in a party one year later in France...
I think Basques have many beautiful traditional songs but am not sure they sing them during the matches.

Are some Irish in favour of seperation from a "national" identity?


It IS one of the best song's of all time, however, ESPECIALLY with your best friends.

It is a bonding, tribal thing AND very annoying when used correctly.

[flipside]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


Strangely enough I remember a semi-final against players dressed in black but I don't remember a game against Australia. Aren't you imagining this story just to make a fool of me?

The second half of the semi against the men in black was one the most inspired, heroic, performances of all time.Genuinely. If you have it on tape, watch it again, and again; of that performance, heroes are made. Seriously.
Set up the video, DVD, oh ****e I don't care but watch it and then tell me that, for that match alone, Magne does not deserve the highest honour his country can give for inspiring about a million French kids what it means to be French.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


Must keep an eye out for it – sounds just about pitched right for me.

I can even arrange subtitles just for you.

So no sign of Fat Cow making the trip here then?

I'll find out and let you know.

The Feature Film sounds like a challenge for you.

The challenge is to develop a story that will sustain 90 minutes on the big screen. The series is half hour episodes - well, about 22 minutes of drama after you allow for ad breaks - and thus, obviously, the stories have all been small scale. For the big screen, you have to do more than string 3 or 4 series stories together. You need one big, sustaining story with a couple of sub-plots. So that's the challenge.

On the rugger front Eddie has claimed he will play the first XV every game right? So the only way Whitaker gets a start is if Eddie makes him number one scrummy. That could be interesting.

Well, yes. That's what he's saying. Injuries might change his tune. And even if he sticks to his plan, I can't see everyone playing the full game against the minnows. As someone pointed out in this morning's press, what happens if you suddenly have to call on a back-up who hasn't played a game in anger in 3 months?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Andydog
So what do you make of Nick Farr-Jones' comments, who rates your chances?

He's pretty right, I think, even if he overrates our achievements in the first and third prerequisites. The classic example was the return Tri Nations match against the ABs. How much did ball did we have in the second half? How impotent was our attack? How often was the ball simply turned back inside and straight into a solid black wall? That wasn't a one-off failure. It was the story of our season. The galling thing is that we have plenty of talent out wide - very expensive talent, too, but that's another story - and they rarely see the ball. On the occasions when Wendell has made an impact, he has usually gone and got the ball himelf. I'll say it again - the problem is either Gregan's incompotence, or Eddie Jones' incompotence. Or maybe even a bit of both.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Andydog

I think that the policy of 'if you live in NZ, you can play rugby for us' is a good one. I have no problem with it whatsoever. We're a multicultural society, what good is it going to do to exclude a particular race of folk from being in our national team? It goes against all that is NZ.

Give up, old son, because I have. You're not going to convince him. It's the Old Colonial in him.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia


I'm sure you found it bracing, but you might find yourself getting sick of it after 5 months. New York weather is too extreme for me - it's either freezing cold or boiling hot.

Put it this way - I wouldn't go near the place in summer. It's putrid. Winter, though, is an entirely different matter. My dream is to move between the hemispheres, completely avoiding summer in any way, shape or form.

[finbar]

Originally posted by flipside
I am sorry for this sarcasm, but hopes that it goes just a little way to prove a point that the amount of money that the "have's " have could be better distributed and that if you follow that arguement to it's infinate conclusion that you will end up with a an Eng- N.Z final most times, with France breaking the tradition and Aus. and Ire being the "floater's."
YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT DISCRIMINATION but IMVHO some teams are twisting this arguement and using money as the lever to do it.The professional teams in Eng. are, again in my IMVHO , going down this path and using the "interest's of our team" arguement to do it.
I'm sorry if I am ranting but to me the key isssues of this W.C are this and the homogenisation of the game.
I wish it was just about the play but it is turning into the pay and I wish to see this game of all sizes and creeds reach out rather than be dominated by the richest Commonwealth country.

I think you make a lot of fair points. The fundamental problem with the move to professionalism is that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Unless, of course, stoppers are put in place, and the IRB is farting around on this matter.

In this WRC, the smaller, poorer rugby nations are suffering because players are contracted to - for the most part - English clubs. Now, at least one player has declined to represent his country because he says he can't afford to lose his English club salary, and his country can't offer him anything like the same money. Given, of course, that the club would release him for the tournament anyway. So here we have two fixable problems. The smaller, poorer rugby nations have to be funded by the IRB to allow them to field their strongest teams. And clubs have to be required by the IRB to release players for international commitments. In England, of course, this opens the proverbial can of very ugly worms, because - as Havak knows, and as we've batted around before - it's the clubs, not the RFU, that effectively control rugby.

Given the IRB's history of ineptitude - it only rivals the ICB, cricket's world controlling body, for fiddling while the game burns - I suspect it will be a very long time until something is done. Sadly.