Rugby World Cup 2003 - Crunch Time!

[Caligastia]

Unfortunately, I won't be able to post very much during the RWC for fear of seeing scores because all the games are being shown a couple of days later here.

Still, if there is a lull in important games for long enough I will pop in to add my 2 cents.

[Caligastia]

In case you guys missed the thread, I thought others here might be interested to see what finbar looks like.

[Caligastia]

[Tamerlin]

Great!

When you think his ancestors were british convicts...

[Andydog]

Originally posted by flipside

Yep, you are right on the point.
So, obviously when the SRU goes out of business and no Samoan players come through and NZ can no longer compete with the resources of England, I guess you will be happy that you are a homogenised nation?

For a start I find it difficult to imagine a turn of evens which would lead to Samoan rugby going 'bankrupt'. Secondly, NZ doesn't depend on an inflow of Samoan players or any other players from the Pacific Islands. Thirdly, money pots or not, NZ will always be able to compete with England. It's more a question of whether England will always be able to compete with NZ. (Havak! I can see that vein in your neck twitching! ) Rugby is NZ's way of life; we will always breed and develop top notch rugby players.

I am sorry for this sarcasm, but hopes that it goes just a little way to prove a point that the amount of money that the "have's " have could be better distributed and that if you follow that arguement to it's infinate conclusion that you will end up with a an Eng- N.Z final most times, with France breaking the tradition and Aus. and Ire being the "floater's."

I understand your point, although I would be interested to know exactly how much money NZ has compared to Aussie, England, France and Ireland. I would imagine we don’t make much from ticket sales, only sponsorship and merchandise. The salaries we pay our players are nothing compared to those playing in the England competitions, so why is it we are still up there do you think?

[Andydog]

Originally posted by Caligastia
In case you guys missed the thread, I thought others here might be interested to see what finbar looks like.

I'm sure he's stoked about that!

Finbar, you're gorgeous mate. If I were female. And a goat.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Glaws seem almost schizo - they destroyed a Sarries side last week but Newcastle, who the week before fell apart against Tigers, detroyed them in turn. Quins were the surpise package in the early games but in turn were felled by that Sarries side.

You are right - it's topsy turvy stuff. Lets see if Bath are there at Xmas. I have to concede that consecutive wins over Sale and Wasps does them great credit however - and it really hurts to say that!

As a relatively objective observer, it would be good to see an even comp.

Care to guess where we are next weekend? There may be a few tractors in the car park - and we may be in for a stuffing depending which side runs out.

With my luck, the tractors will get bogged!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
Great!

When you think his ancestors were british convicts...

Not true! My great great grandfather was a Dutch ship's engineer who jumped ship in Adelaide in the 1880s! Which, of course, explains why I've always felt I was born in the wrong hemisphere! And also, perhaps, explains my penchant for s!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Andydog


I'm sure he's stoked about that!

Finbar, you're gorgeous mate. If I were female. And a goat.

Rest assured, I'm not remotely interested in transplanted Kiwis in fishnets.

Oh, and speaking of explosive stomach upsets, Stirling Mortlock is going to miss the opener against the Pumas thanks to one.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Unfortunately, I won't be able to post very much during the RWC for fear of seeing scores because all the games are being shown a couple of days later here.

Okay, we'll bombard your email with the results. And they'll be in the subject line. So check your email over the next six weeks at your peril!

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar


Okay, we'll bombard your email with the results. And they'll be in the subject line. So check your email over the next six weeks at your peril!

It's times like this I'm glad I live in a country that doesn't report rugby results with any amount of enthusiasm.

[flipside]

Originally posted by Andydog

For a start I find it difficult to imagine a turn of evens which would lead to Samoan rugby going 'bankrupt'. Secondly, NZ doesn't depend on an inflow of Samoan players or any other players from the Pacific Islands. Thirdly, money pots or not, NZ will always be able to compete with England. It's more a question of whether England will always be able to compete with NZ. (Havak! I can see that vein in your neck twitching! ) Rugby is NZ's way of life; we will always breed and develop top notch rugby players.

Okay, fair enough.

Firstly, Samoan bankruptcy


Aussie response

Secondly

Island players in the NZ squad

Joe Rokocoko Born Fiji, raised Auckland
Tana Umaga Samoan, born Wellington
Aaron Mauger Samoan descent
Doug Howlett Tongan mother
Mils Muiliana Born Samoa
Keven Mealamu Samoan descent
Jerry Collins Samoan
Rodney So'oialo Samoan
Catl hoeft Tongan/German parents


Thirdly

Compete with England?
Yep, my point is more how certain teams are having their basic strength ripped off of them. If it helps, I could quite happily knock off 20 names of players that should be playing in this WC that are staying at home for financial reasons, most of which is due to the timing of the competiton and the English wages.

[flipside]

Originally posted by Andydog


I understand your point, although I would be interested to know exactly how much money NZ has compared to Aussie, England, France and Ireland. I would imagine we don’t make much from ticket sales, only sponsorship and merchandise. The salaries we pay our players are nothing compared to those playing in the England competitions, so why is it we are still up there do you think?

Fair point.

Tell you what though, you let Samoa have your resources, all the players of island descent, and pick, say just 5 NZ born players, and, in return, you take theirs.

What, seriously, do you think would happen?

[finbar]

Originally posted by flipside
Aussie response

Interesting reading. I read something else completely different from him to the effect that the Pacific Islands' plight was the responsibility of the IRB. I must try to find it. Anyway, what he says here is pretty right.

[Andydog]

Originally posted by flipside
Firstly, Samoan bankruptcy


Aussie response

Well, there was nothing in that article to suggest that Samoa would go bankrupt. The gist of it to me was that they are a good rugby nation, but because they are not included in any international competitions, they don't get the cash injections that could really promote their game and help their economy. The key point was the last sentence, "Simplistically you could just write them a cheque, but that's not the way to go. Money will help but you've got to find ways of including them in competitions."

Secondly

Island players in the NZ squad

Joe Rokocoko Born Fiji, raised Auckland
Tana Umaga Samoan, born Wellington
Aaron Mauger Samoan descent
Doug Howlett Tongan mother
Mils Muiliana Born Samoa
Keven Mealamu Samoan descent
Jerry Collins Samoan
Rodney So'oialo Samoan
Catl hoeft Tongan/German parents

So what? I say it again. We're a multi-cultural society. How do you think those guys are going to feel if we told them to "bugger off, you have to play for your native countries for this world cup"? Many would be devastated - most of those players are born and bread Kiwis. Ancestry is irrelevant.

Fair point.

Tell you what though, you let Samoa have your resources, all the players of island descent, and pick, say just 5 NZ born players, and, in return, you take theirs.

What, seriously, do you think would happen?

But most of those guys you listed ARE NZ born players. Heck I have Scottish ancestry, does that mean I have to play for Scotland rather than NZ? Of course not - I'm a Kiwi.

Mate, unlike Ireland, Kiwi’s have ancestors from all over the world. The indigenous people are the Maori. It is not appropriate (and very wrong) in our eyes to consider ancestry when selecting people for sports teams. If they want to live in NZ they can play our sports, end of story.