Rugby World Cup 2003 - Crunch Time!

[Andydog]

Originally posted by Havak
There’s a familiar tune playing here – “Let’s bash England”

You're on to it mate!

Really? Because I saw NZ and thought they were fairly good. But should I say “it’s only Italy for Fark’s sake”.

And you'd be right. NZ should have won by more - we made too many handling errors (I think the team may have been a little.. over excited..) and we lacked structure and execution at times. Things got better as the game progressed, and there is no doubt we can and will get better throughout the pool games. And I think so will England.

Lardy Thompson by the way was one of the few consistently punching holes through those huge forwards – I reckon you just don’t like him.

The ball bounced off him too many times, but fair call, he did manage to also get a few Georgians bouncing off his beer pot.

Wow – you really have got this one staggeringly wrong. Of the two England looked far the stronger – although some of what France were doing later in the second half was quite nice.

But France played Fiji, a team that contains much more skill than Georgia. I thought France did really well actually – Fiji made use of, and got their points via their very quick wingers. France did well to batter the pack into submission and not to loose composure after that bout of agro, which they’ve been inclined to do in the past. Their two centres had a fantastic game (Tony Marsh being a kiwi I hasten to add.. )

[Andydog]

Originally posted by finbar
Ma'a Nonu is his name. Very talented. Sort of a pocket-sized version of Umaga. He's Umaga's centre partner in S12. You can imagine the rampages they go on together. They just about carried the Hurricanes into the S12 semi-finals this season.

Anyone seen that Arnie movie, Predator? I swear Nonu is really one of those alien things - certainly he's as powerful. I'd like to see him in there with Carter and Mils. Mauger is still injured - he didn't train with the ABs yesterday - and whether he'll be okay by the time quarters/semis come around is the big question. Either way, Carter provides a very good option in the 12 jersey - probably more potent on attack than Mauger, but maybe not quite the stabilising influence. He could also take the pressure of kicking off Spencer.

Tana is not only the defensive master of that backline but the leader. His organisation and communication will be missed.

[Andydog]

Originally posted by kiwiman
Greetings from Kiwiman in Melbourne. Finbar kindly informed me about this enlightened forum. News this morning is that Umaga is out with his knee for the tournament and that Caucau got 2 match suspension.

Welcome Kiwiman! By all means feel free to join in the fun of jamming it up the Pom. He's a bitter drinker, so if you ever find this place smelling of rotten old farts, you know he's about!

[Havak]

There was a lot of action in the England 22. Every single kick-off Georgia put it there.
Every. Single. Time.

There was still no action there – if they made tackles in the 22 twice I’d be surprised. Those restarts came back at them at speed.

Oh and I wasn't going to mention those decoy runners of yours but now that you've brought it up ...

Seemed to be Greenwoods main function to be honest – so why Clive is criticising the Aussies (who certainly do it as well) I do not know.

I’ll say hello to Kiwiman here also – it may be the last pleasant words we exchange before standard Pommy bashing commences?

He knew that. I invited him to shore up the defences against the NH barbarian hordes.

Interesting analogy. Tamerlin rebuttal was fairly good but I’ll expand on it - we in the NH are the ‘Romans’ who gave the game to the world – and you lot are the ‘scruffy oiks’ that came and sacked our capital. But just like the tribes your superior strength has faded over time. Wow that stretched the analogy?

I am not sure the future opponents of the All Blacks are earning a benefit from this replacement.

The Kiwi’s rate Ma'a Nonu highly. After Umaga most of them make him the best centre in the world no doubt? But then Kiwi’s rate everyone in the black shirt ‘best in position’ generally, and certainly when we are looking at back lines.

You're on to it mate!

Seeing the hook never stops a fish biting it.

Things got better as the game progressed, and there is no doubt we can and will get better throughout the pool games. And I think so will England.

I have no doubt you are right on both counts. I look forward to your last pool game – Wales are finally playing some rugby but I feel by then you may be somewhat too sharp for them – 53-3 in the summer wasn’t it?

The ball bounced off him too many times, but fair call, he did manage to also get a few Georgians bouncing off his beer pot.

The Georgians caught the team off guard – they were expecting a tight game up front so they could be playing an expansive game – what they got was free reign in the middle and defence out wide. Not good defence sure, but energetic and it necessarily altered the game plan I think. Plus the conditions were like Wales in October rather than Australia. Not really an excuse though – we are quite used to that.

I thought Italy fronted up quite well – but they clearly lacked the firepower necessary to trouble the ABs.

You need to forget the opponents to a certain extent and look at how teams performed – that old SH favourite of patterns and structure. The Boks hammered Uruguay but there was no structure to their game and they worked everything through the forwards – the backs hardly got a look in. As a work out for next week how useful was that? At least we had ambition.

I never said by the way France were not good – but I found England far more consistent – we controlled the game to a much greater extent. Your point about comparative opponents is duly noted as a qualifier. Georgia may pull off a shock though – Uruguay and Samoa will not find them easy I think.

Bitter = nectar of the gods. Pure and simple.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Andydog
(Tony Marsh being a kiwi I hasten to add.. )

Tony Marsh is as French as Rokococo is New Zealander...

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Havak

You need to forget the opponents to a certain extent and look at how teams performed – that old SH favourite of patterns and structure. The Boks hammered Uruguay but there was no structure to their game and they worked everything through the forwards – the backs hardly got a look in. As a work out for next week how useful was that? At least we had ambition.

True enough but trying to draw generalizations about future matches against tougher opposition based on past matches against lesser opposition is a pretty large leap. Necessity being the parental of invention and all ...
I doubt too many reliable hints can be taken this early.

Bitter = nectar of the gods. Pure and simple.

"Only the 'gods' of Evil Darth. Only the 'gods' of evil."

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Tamerlin

Tony Marsh is as French as Rokococo is New Zealander...

Bonjour Monsieur Marsh!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
Bitter = nectar of the gods. Pure and simple.

I thought it was Ambrosia...

[Havak]

I doubt too many reliable hints can be taken this early.

True enough - which is why I'm not worried about anything too much yet. Now if we lose Saturday (god forbid) then I'll start worrying - and praying for a Welsh miracle.

So Tony Marsh isn't native born French? Quelle Surprise!

Bitter does not belong to the dark side.

Lager does.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by ravagon
Bonjour Monsieur Marsh!

About New Zealand I have been impressed by the mechanical aspects of their game. Every player knows where he must stand and what he must do at all time to the point they are no more thinking about it. Though it is a great strength I think this is also their main weakness as they could lack the ability to react as a team and adapt their game to win against an opponent that is challenging them on an individual basis.

IMO, the Game of Rugby played by the All Blacks (you know, this Rugby League pudding played with 15 players) relies too much on the individual qualities of the players and their ability to win the duels. Their beautiful organization could well fall apart against a team that is challenging them on this ground.

[Havak]

Rugby League Pudding? Tamerlin you do crack me up!

Looks like the Australia-Namibia game might set new records when it happens - what little I have seen they have been awful.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Andydog
Tana is not only the defensive master of that backline but the leader. His organisation and communication will be missed.

Good point. So you'd want Mauger back pretty quickly.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Interesting analogy. Tamerlin rebuttal was fairly good but I’ll expand on it - we in the NH are the ‘Romans’ who gave the game to the world – and you lot are the ‘scruffy oiks’ that came and sacked our capital. But just like the tribes your superior strength has faded over time. Wow that stretched the analogy?

A tad more e-l-a-s-t-i-i-i-i-i-c than your usual efforts.

The Kiwi’s rate Ma'a Nonu highly. After Umaga most of them make him the best centre in the world no doubt? But then Kiwi’s rate everyone in the black shirt ‘best in position’ generally, and certainly when we are looking at back lines.

They do rate him. He was terrifying in S12 paired with Umaga. I don't know whether he'll make the step up, but he certainly won't die wondering.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
About New Zealand I have been impressed by the mechanical aspects of their game. Every player knows where he must stand and what he must do at all time to the point they are no more thinking about it. Though it is a great strength I think this is also their main weakness as they could lack the ability to react as a team and adapt their game to win against an opponent that is challenging them on an individual basis.

Precisely what happened to them against the Boks in the return Tri Nations match.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Rugby League Pudding? Tamerlin you do crack me up!

It's a line he's used many times before! It doesn't get any funnier with the telling! Jacques Tati just somersaults once more in his grave!

Looks like the Australia-Namibia game might set new records when it happens - what little I have seen they have been awful.

I assume you took today off work to watch Argentina -v- Namibia? I was feeling particularly perverse tonight, so I insisted Mrs finbar watch it with me. Gee, the Pumas have left their A game back on the Pampas.