How would you vote on the Canadian Alliance motion?

[Ben Kenobi]

Asher:

Marc Hall went to a publically funded school, this is entirely different and I'm sure you're bright enough to know it.

Then tell me the last time the courts ruled in favour of religious freedoms over Equality rights.

People are going to stop having heterosexual sex because they can legally marry a man?

It won't increase the birthrate, that's for sure.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Personally, I think the government should back out of the marriage realm. On one hand, it is not good to discriminate against a segment of the population. On the other, it should not take sides in a heated moral debate by affirming(or de-affirming) this type of behavior; which it would be doing were it to legalize gay marriage. I think the best soution is to get the government out of the question.

Amen. This should be between two people, their spritual guide, and their Maker.

The day is long past when governments should be playing a hand in what goes on in front of an altar.

Let people who are not religious register their unions with the state for state purposes, and let the religious do the same and then follow through with vows, no matter who they may be.

[David Floyd]

Shi,

The issue of gay marriage is that goes beyond toleration of homosexual behavior to an endorsement thereof that. Many people don't want the government doing that.

The government is simply affirming the right of two people to contract freely. What's wrong with that?

which it would be doing were it to legalize gay marriage.

No, it would be affirming the right to contract freely.

[Ben Kenobi]

NYE:

There are a number of sources, to which Boris, asher et al would call 'biased', so I'll try to find one that they will approve of.

In an article for the homosexual newspaper, Capital Xtra (September 27, 2002) Brian Gallant, Capital Xtra's publisher and editor in chief states:

It shouldn't be too difficult to convince you that gay men face greater health risks than our heterosexual counterparts. And if you're a sexually active gay man, there are health risks in our culture or subculture that healthcare providers simply don't understand, unless you're one of the more fortunate.

Mr. Gallant then proceeds to list the health problems resulting from the homosexual lifestyle. These problems include:

Eating disorders, such as bulimia or anorexia, resulting from body image problems which are more common among gay men than among their straight peers.
Alcohol abuse and dependency, which is higher than among straight men.
Gay men use tobacco at much higher rates than straight men, reaching 50% in some studies.
Depression and anxiety appear to affect gay men at a higher rate than people in the general population.
Gay men use chemical substances at a higher rate than the general population. These range from amyl nitrate (poppers), to marijuana, ecstasy and amphetamines.
There is an increased risk of HIV infection.
An article included in the March 2003 issue of the homosexual magazine, TO BE, by Ouri M. refers to a 2001 survey called "The Wellness Project," initiated by Pink Triangle Services in Ottawa, which found that the number one health concern for homosexuals is depression. The author blames this health problem on the loneliness caused by the gay culture. He states:

It is my opinion that many gay men are extremely lonely, and feel very isolated. Our gay culture has not celebrated the virtues of long-term relationships, love, faithfulness, and monogamy. The gay culture celebrates and worships youth, physical beauty, and sex. Being young and gay is fun, going out to clubs and cruising is adventurous and exciting. However as the years pass us by, and we do not settle down that adventure becomes less and less fun in my opinion. One begins to feel lonely, and frustrated, and in many cases seeks out many sexual partners to fill the void inside. Drugs are also often used to cover up the pain of ones [sic] loneliness, or reality.

… I believe we must change our focus and shift our culture from the sex, drugs, and physical we so dearly cherish. …

… We must help eradicate the loneliness and sadness many older gay men feel. There is a trap that may gay men fall into as they age, realising they are longer young and attractive and can't attract that hot guy anymore, they no longer want to go out to bars, then what?

[Asher]

How is the gay lifestyle unhealthy?

More gay men go to the gym regularly on average than your straight man, everyone knows that. They religiously keep fit in general.

I think the point here is the people who oppose gay marriage do so because they "disagree" with the "gay lifestyle". Hey, that's fine. I disagree with their rotten authoritarian arrogance, but you don't see me preventing them from getting married and spreading their intolerant beliefs to their kids.

[Asher]

Ben: What a great article!

It is my opinion that many gay men are extremely lonely, and feel very isolated. Our gay culture has not celebrated the virtues of long-term relationships, love, faithfulness, and monogamy.

So by banning marriage for gays, are you not making this worse?

Most of the article is complete ****e, though. It's the straight guys I know that don't keep fit and wash their hands after the washroom.

It is also a blatant generalization fueled by stereotypes.

It may shock you to know that I am not only monogamous and healthy, but celebrate the virtues of long-term relationships, love, faithfulness, and monogamy. But most important, I'm fit!

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

First, Why 'to the exclusion of all others?' If we approve of homosexual marriages, why not polygamy?

I hate it when people use slippery slope arguments, don't you??

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Secondly, Not helpful to the churches who oppose gay marriage. They will likely have tax exemptions cut off if they refuse to marry a couple. We see this in the Marc Hall case, and I see further precedents down the line.

Never thought of this argument . . .

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Thirdly, we have a low birthrate. This will drop the birthrate further.

Um -- I got news for you. Gays do not decide to have sex with someone of the opposite gender, based on whether or not they will have legally recognized unions with someone of the same gender.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Fourth, immigration from other countries of people who cannot get married in their home countries, coming to Canada just to get married.

There wouldn't be a point in this, since other countries cannot be legally compelled to recognize unions administered in another country. However, those countries might feel diplomatic pressure to change their own laws.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Fifth, what's going to happen with families? An affirmation of marriage between a man and a woman would finally show that a traditional family is something to be valued.

I got news for ya -- gays value family just as heterosexuals value family -- just not in the homophobic, narrow sense.
To deny this, is to deny that gays have the same universal humanistic traits that heterosexuals have.

[notyoueither]

Wow. So being gay means craving sex and acceptance beyond what one would if they were straight?

I don't buy it.

Gay people cannot be monogamous, and committed? I think treating all by that rule would be as vile as treating all of any group according to any stereotype.

[Ben Kenobi]

NYE:

WRT to your earlier question:

http://www.cprmd.org/Myths/Myth_Fact_003.htm

In the early 1960s, Berger attempted to draw a sampling of elderly homosexuals, but had to begin his scale at 40 years and only 34 of 112 were over the age of 59.

From 1969 through 1970, the Kinsey Institute surveyed homosexuals in San Francisco. Although they recruited respondents in eight different catagories, only 23% of male homosexuals and only 18% of lesbians were over the age of 45, despite the fact that the investigators tried for 25% from this age group. Their initial decision to draw only a quarter of their sampling from homosexuals over 45 indicates they already knew the problem existed, and they ended up omitting figures on age distribution from their report.

In 1977, the largest survey of homosexuals reported 0.2% of lesbians and 0.8% of homosexual males were age 65 or older.

The Spada Report: The Newest Survey of Gay Male Sexuality, in 1978, reported the median age was 30, with only 2.5% over age 65. J. Spada was openly homosexual and polled 1,022 male homosexuals by mail.

An openly lesbian M. Mendola, in 1979, polled 405 homosexuals by mail. The median age of those polled was 34, and only 10% were 50 or over. Source: The Mendola Report: A New Look at Gay Couples.

[Asher]

I think the silliness of that article speaks for itself, Ben...

I wonder why lots of 70 year olds in the 70s didn't admit to being gay. Thinking hard now. hmm!

Not to mention the source of that...

The Natural Family

The ideal natural family is one man and one woman brought together by marriage, who enjoy a monogamous relationship, and with Gods' blessing are given children to raise and love.

Our Three Areas of Concentration


Working with and saving the natural family from divorce, separation and outside interference.


Defeating the homosexual agenda, because it is the biggest threat to the natural family.


Encouraging and developing Abstinence Education and programs!
Stop Sexual Anarchy NOW!!!
"Breathing New Life Back into
the Natural Family"

[MrFun]

God damn it -- I spent two minutes creating my last post.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher
But most important, I'm fit!

How fit is Asher?

[MrFun]

Ben -- I'm interested to hear your replies to my post.

[David Floyd]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why the state has some compelling interest in telling two individuals the can't freely enter into marriage contracts, but at the same time does not have the right to redefine the word "marriage". Doesn't make much sense, huh?

[Asher]

That site has some great other "myths" too, Ben!

Myth #8 - Homosexuals are "born that way"
Myth #11 - AIDS is not a homosexual disease in America
Myth #13 - Homosexuality should be taught in schools ( )
Myth #15 - Homosexuals deserve protection from discrimination
Myth #17 - Homosexuals cannot change their sexual orientation