How would you vote on the Canadian Alliance motion?

[Sava]

but seriously, wtf do you care if two gay dudes (or girls) want to get married... it's none of your business.

[notyoueither]

I'm somewhat confused. If some churches want to marry gay couples, and some gay couples want to get married, where's the beef?

Is the fear that all churches will be forced to marry gay couples?

Since there are already civil unions, what is the difference? It is a religious one, right? So, isn't failing to recognise the religious union of a gay couple in some denomination or other a suppression of that religious sect, and not just discrimination against those who were married under that blessing?

btw, I have a very difficult time believing 74% of Canadians as a whole are against the Mangler on this.

[Ben Kenobi]

PARTY BREAKDOWNS : YEAS


ALLIANCE: 64


ABBOTT, James (Canadian Alliance)
ABLONCZY, Diane (Canadian Alliance)
ANDERS, Rob (Canadian Alliance)
ANDERSON, David L. (Canadian Alliance)
BAILEY, Roy H. (Canadian Alliance)
BENOIT, Leon Earl (Canadian Alliance)
BREITKREUZ, Garry (Canadian Alliance)
BURTON, Andy (Canadian Alliance)
CADMAN, Chuck (Canadian Alliance)
CASSON, Rick (Canadian Alliance)
CHATTERS, David Cameron (Canadian Alliance)
CUMMINS, John Martin (Canadian Alliance)
DAY, Stockwell (Canadian Alliance)
DUNCAN, John Morris (Canadian Alliance)
ELLEY, Reed (Canadian Alliance)
EPP, Ken (Canadian Alliance)
FITZPATRICK, Brian (Canadian Alliance)
FORSETH, Paul Eugene (Canadian Alliance)
GALLANT, Cheryl (Canadian Alliance)
GOLDRING, Peter (Canadian Alliance)
GOUK, Jim (Canadian Alliance)
GREWAL, Gurmant Singh (Canadian Alliance)
GREY, Deborah C. (Canadian Alliance)
HANGER, Art (Canadian Alliance)
HARPER, Stephen Joseph (Canadian Alliance)
HARRIS, **** (Canadian Alliance)
HERRON, John (Conservative)
HILL, Grant (Canadian Alliance)
HILL, Jay D. (Canadian Alliance)
HILSTROM, Howard E. (Canadian Alliance)
HINTON, Betty (Canadian Alliance)
JAFFER, Rahim (Canadian Alliance)
JOHNSTON, F. Dale (Canadian Alliance)
KENNEY, Jason (Canadian Alliance)
LUNN, Gary (Canadian Alliance)
LUNNEY, James D. (Canadian Alliance)
MARTIN, Keith P. (Canadian Alliance)
MAYFIELD, Philip William (Canadian Alliance)
MCNALLY, Grant (Canadian Alliance)
MEREDITH, Val (Canadian Alliance)
MERRIFIELD, Rob (Canadian Alliance)
MILLS, Bob (Canadian Alliance)
MOORE, James (Canadian Alliance)
OBHRAI, Deepak (Canadian Alliance)
PALLISTER, Brian William (Canadian Alliance)
PENSON, Charlie (Canadian Alliance)
RAJOTTE, James (Canadian Alliance)
REID, Scott (Canadian Alliance)
REYNOLDS, John Douglas (Canadian Alliance)
RITZ, Gerry (Canadian Alliance)
SCHMIDT, Werner (Canadian Alliance)
SKELTON, Carol (Canadian Alliance)
SOLBERG, Monte (Canadian Alliance)
SORENSON, Kevin (Canadian Alliance)
SPENCER, Larry (Canadian Alliance)
STINSON, Darrel (Canadian Alliance)
STRAHL, Chuck (Canadian Alliance)
THOMPSON, Myron (Canadian Alliance)
TOEWS, Vic (Canadian Alliance)
VELLACOTT, Maurice (Canadian Alliance)
WHITE, Randy A. (Canadian Alliance)
WHITE, Ted (Canadian Alliance)
WILLIAMS, John G. (Canadian Alliance)
YELICH, Lynne (Canadian Alliance)


LIBERAL: 54


ASSAD, Mark Joseph (Liberal)
ASSADOURIAN, Sarkis (Liberal)
BELLEMARE, Eugene (Liberal)
BERTRAND, Robert (Liberal)
BONIN, Raymond (Liberal)
BRYDEN, John H. (Liberal)
CALDER, Murray (Liberal)
CANNIS, John (Liberal)
CHAMBERLAIN, Brenda Kay (Liberal)
CHARBONNEAU, Yvon (Liberal)
EFFORD, R. John (Liberal)
EYKING, Mark (Liberal)
FONTANA, Joe (Liberal)
GUARNIERI, Albina (Liberal)
HUBBARD, Charles (Liberal)
JACKSON, Ovid (Liberal)
KARYGIANNIS, Jim (Liberal)
KILGER, Bob (Liberal)
LASTEWKA, Walt (Liberal)
LEE, Derek Vincent (Liberal)
LINCOLN, Clifford (Liberal)
LONGFIELD, Judi (Liberal)
MALHI, Gurbax Singh (Liberal)
MALONEY, John (Liberal)
MCCORMICK, Larry (Liberal)
MCGUIRE, Joe (Liberal)
MCKAY, John (Liberal)
MCTEAGUE, Dan (Liberal)
MURPHY, Shawn (Liberal)
NORMAND, Gilbert (Liberal)
O¡¦BRIEN, Pat (Liberal)
O¡¦REILLY, John Francis (Liberal)
PANKIW, Jim (Independent)
PERIC, Janko (Liberal)
PESCHISOLIDO, Joe (Liberal)
PICKARD, Jerry (Liberal)
PILLITTERI, Gary Orazio Vincenzo (Liberal)
PRATT, David (Liberal)
PROVENZANO, Carmen (Liberal)
REED, Julian Alexander Arnott (Liberal)
SAVOY, Andy (Liberal)
SCHERRER, Helene C. (Liberal)
SERRE, Benoit (Liberal)
SGRO, Judy (Liberal)
SPELLER, Bob (Liberal)
STECKLE, Paul Daniel (Liberal)
ST-JULIEN, Guy (Liberal)
SZABO, Paul John Mark (Liberal)
TIRABASSI, Tony (Liberal)
TONKS, Alan (Liberal)
UR, Rose-Marie Margaret (Liberal)
VOLPE, Joseph (Liberal)
WAPPEL, Tom (Liberal)
WILFERT, Bryon (Liberal)


CONSERVATIVES: 9

BARNES, Rex (Conservative)
CASEY, Bill (Conservative)
DOYLE, Norman E. (Conservative)
KEDDY, Gerald (Conservative)
MACKAY, Peter Gordon (Conservative)
MARK, Inky (Conservative)
SCHELLENBERGER, Gary (Conservative)
THOMPSON, Gregory Francis (Conservative)
WAYNE, Elsie Eleanore (Conservative)


BLOQ: 4

ASSELIN, Gerard (Bloc Quebecois)
GAUDET, Roger (Bloc Quebecois)
LANCTOT, Robert (Bloc Quebecois)
VENNE, Pierrette (Independent Bloc Quebecois)


INDEPENDENT: 1

LEBEL, Ghislain (Independent)

[Sava]

notyoueither: it's a misleading poll (of course)... it's asking is marriage between a man and a woman... well DUH! it doesn't ask "Should gays have civil unions equivalent to marriage in terms of legality?"

[notyoueither]

Maybe people are missing the 'to the exclusion of all others' bit, or maybe that site is not representative. I hope.

[Ben Kenobi]

but seriously, wtf do you care if two gay dudes (or girls) want to get married... it's none of your business.

Personally?

This will produce big changes to Canadian society, that affect everybody. That's why I care.

[Sava]

This will produce big changes to Canadian society, that affect everybody. That's why I care.

oh yeah, big changes... LIKE ACCEPTING AND TOLERATING GAYS INSTEAD OF HATING THEM


oh god the humanity!@

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Personally?

This will produce big changes to Canadian society, that affect everybody. That's why I care.

What changes and why would they be bad?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Personally?

This will produce big changes to Canadian society, that affect everybody. That's why I care.

Indeed, you're right on the money!

Allowing gay marriage will prove too tempting for many of the people out there, and will contribute to a downfall in society when men realize they truly don't need women anymore. Not even to get married!

Can you guys not see how this will torment the country? How dare two people marry eachother if they have the same genitals, God will throw lightning down on our entire country and rape our children.

[Ben Kenobi]

PARTY BREAKDOWN

NAYS - 137 votes:

LIBERAL: 98


ADAMS, Peter (Liberal)
ALCOCK, Reg (Liberal)
ALLARD, Carole-Marie (Liberal)
ANDERSON, David (Liberal)
AUGUSTINE, Jean (Liberal)
BAGNELL, Larry (Liberal)
BARNES, Susan (Liberal)
BARRETTE, Gilbert (Liberal)
BEAUMIER, Colleen (Liberal)
BELANGER, Mauril (Liberal)
BENNETT, Carolyn (Liberal)
BEVILACQUA, Maurizio (Liberal)
BINET, Gerard (Liberal)
BLONDIN-ANDREW, Ethel (Liberal)
BONWICK, Paul (Liberal)
BOUDRIA, Don (Liberal)
BRADSHAW, Claudette (Liberal)
BROWN, Bonnie (Liberal)
BULTE, Sarmite (Liberal)
BYRNE, Gerry (Liberal)
CACCIA, Charles L. (Liberal)
CAPLAN, Elinor (Liberal)
CARIGNAN, Jean Guy (Independent Liberal)
CASTONGUAY, Jeannot (Liberal)
CATTERALL, Marlene (Liberal)
CAUCHON, Martin (Liberal)
CHRETIEN, Jean (Liberal)
CODERRE, Denis (Liberal)
COLLENETTE, David Michael (Liberal)
COPPS, Sheila Maureen (Liberal)
CULLEN, Roy (Liberal)
CUZNER, Rodger (Liberal)
DEVILLERS, Paul (Liberal)
DHALIWAL, Herb (Liberal)
DION, Stephane (Liberal)
DISCEPOLA, Nick (Liberal)
DROMISKY, Stan (Liberal)
DROUIN, Claude (Liberal)
DUPLAIN, Claude (Liberal)
EASTER, Arnold Wayne (Liberal)
EGGLETON, Arthur C. (Liberal)
FARRAH, Georges (Liberal)
FINLAY, John Baird (Liberal)
FOLCO, Raymonde (Liberal)
FRULLA, Liza (Liberal)
FRY, Hedy (Liberal)
GODFREY, John Ferguson (Liberal)
GOODALE, Ralph Edward (Liberal)
GRAHAM, Bill (Liberal)
GROSE, Ivan (Liberal)
HARVARD, John (Liberal)
HARVEY, Andre (Liberal)
IANNO, Tony (Liberal)
JENNINGS, Marlene (Liberal)
JOBIN, Christian (Liberal)
JORDAN, Joe Louis (Liberal)
KARETAK-LINDELL, Nancy (Liberal)
KEYES, Stan Kazmierczak (Liberal)
KNUTSON, Gar (Liberal)
KRAFT SLOAN, Karen (Liberal)
LEBLANC, Dominic (Liberal)
MACKLIN, Paul Harold (Liberal)
MAHONEY, Steve (Liberal)
MANLEY, John Paul (Liberal)
MARCIL, Serge (Liberal)
MARLEAU, Diane (Liberal)
MARTIN, Paul (Liberal)
MCCALLUM, John (Liberal)
MCLELLAN, A. Anne (Liberal)
MINNA, Maria (Liberal)
MITCHELL, Andy (Liberal)
NAULT, Robert Daniel (Liberal)
NEVILLE, Anita (Liberal)
PAGTAKHAN, Rey D. (Liberal)
PARADIS, Denis (Liberal)
PARRISH, Carolyn (Liberal)
PATRY, Bernard (Liberal)
PETERSON, Jim (Liberal)
PETTIGREW, Pierre (Liberal)
PHINNEY, Beth (Liberal)
PRICE, David (Liberal)
PROULX, Marcel (Liberal)
REDMAN, Karen (Liberal)
REGAN, Geoff (Liberal)
ROBILLARD, Lucienne (Liberal)
ROCK, Allan (Liberal)
SAADA, Jacques (Liberal)
SCOTT, Andy (Liberal)
SHEPHERD, Alexander James (Liberal)
SIMARD, Raymond (Liberal)
ST. DENIS, Brent (Liberal)
STEWART, Jane (Liberal)
ST-JACQUES, Diane (Liberal)
TELEGDI, Andrew (Liberal)
THIBAULT, Robert (Liberal)
THIBEAULT, Yolande (Liberal)
VANCLIEF, Lyle (Liberal)
WHELAN, Susan (Liberal)


BLOQ: 23

BACHAND, Claude (Bloc Quebecois)
BIGRAS, Bernard (Bloc Quebecois)
BOURGEOIS, Diane (Bloc Quebecois)
CRETE, Paul (Bloc Quebecois)
DALPHOND-GUIRAL, Madeleine (Bloc Quebecois)
DUCEPPE, Gilles (Bloc Quebecois)
GAGNON, Christiane (Bloc Quebecois)
GAGNON, Marcel (Bloc Quebecois)
GAGNON, Sebastien (Bloc Quebecois)
GAUTHIER, Michel (Bloc Quebecois)
GIRARD-BUJOLD, Jocelyne (Bloc Quebecois)
GUAY, Monique (Bloc Quebecois)
GUIMOND, Michel (Bloc Quebecois)
LALONDE, Francine (Bloc Quebecois)
LOUBIER, Yvan (Bloc Quebecois)
MARCEAU, Richard (Bloc Quebecois)
MENARD, Real (Bloc Quebecois)
PAQUETTE, Pierre (Bloc Quebecois)
PICARD, Pauline (Bloc Quebecois)
PLAMONDON, Louis (Bloc Quebecois)
ROY, Jean-Yves(Bloc Quebecois)
SAUVAGEAU, Benoit (Bloc Quebecois)
ST-HILAIRE, Caroline (Bloc Quebecois)


NDP:12

BLAIKIE, Bill (NDP)
COMARTIN, Joe (NDP)
DAVIES, Libby (NDP)
GODIN, Yvon (NDP)
LILL, Wendy (NDP)
MARTIN, Pat (NDP)
MASSE, Brian (NDP)
MCDONOUGH, Alexa (NDP)
NYSTROM, Lorne Edmund (NDP)
PROCTOR, **** (NDP)
ROBINSON, Svend Johannes (NDP)
WASYLYCIA-LEIS, Judy (NDP)


CONSERVATIVES: 4


BACHAND, Andre (Conservative)
BOROTSIK, Rick (Conservative)
BRISON, Scott (Conservative)
CLARK, Joe (Conservative)

[Asher]

Go Joe Clark.

Though I shouldn't be surprised, his riding is basically the gay community of Calgary.

[Ben Kenobi]

What changes and why would they be bad?

First, Why 'to the exclusion of all others?' If we approve of homosexual marriages, why not polygamy?

Secondly, Not helpful to the churches who oppose gay marriage. They will likely have tax exemptions cut off if they refuse to marry a couple. We see this in the Marc Hall case, and I see further precedents down the line.

Thirdly, we have a low birthrate. This will drop the birthrate further.

Fourth, immigration from other countries of people who cannot get married in their home countries, coming to Canada just to get married.

Fifth, what's going to happen with families? An affirmation of marriage between a man and a woman would finally show that a traditional family is something to be valued.

[Ben Kenobi]

Couple of names stick out.

MACKAY, Peter Gordon (Conservative)


ASSELIN, Gerard (Bloc Quebecois)
GAUDET, Roger (Bloc Quebecois)
LANCTOT, Robert (Bloc Quebecois)
VENNE, Pierrette (Independent Bloc Quebecois)


Who are these BQ? Never heard of them.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
First, Why 'to the exclusion of all others?' If we approve of homosexual marriages, why not polygamy?

Why not polygamy? That is a good question.

I've no problem with polygamy so long as they all consent. Ain't my place to tell them they can't.

Secondly, Not helpful to the churches who oppose gay marriage. They will likely have tax exemptions cut off if they refuse to marry a couple. We see this in the Marc Hall case, and I see further precedents down the line.

Marc Hall went to a publically funded school, this is entirely different and I'm sure you're bright enough to know it.

Thirdly, we have a low birthrate. This will drop the birthrate further.

People are going to stop having heterosexual sex because they can legally marry a man?

Fourth, immigration from other countries of people who cannot get married in their home countries, coming to Canada just to get married.

They don't immigrate here, they come on vacation here.

An increase in tourism is a negative?

Fifth, what's going to happen with families?

Same thing as before, I don't see families being broken up because the next door neighbors are two daddies.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
First, Why 'to the exclusion of all others?' If we approve of homosexual marriages, why not polygamy?

Why is polygamy wrong, and outlawed?

Why do you link polygamy and gay marriage?

Secondly, Not helpful to the churches who oppose gay marriage. They will likely have tax exemptions cut off if they refuse to marry a couple. We see this in the Marc Hall case, and I see further precedents down the line.

That would be bull ****. If that happened churches could count on the support of most Canadians to tell the GoC and the Court to go shove it.

However, the fact that something bad might happen, is no reason to continue to deny rights to others.

Thirdly, we have a low birthrate. This will drop the birthrate further.

Recognising gay marriage will encourage more people to be gay? I don't know if I agree with that.

Fourth, immigration from other countries of people who cannot get married in their home countries, coming to Canada just to get married.

Hell, that would be good for us, since they tend to be better off and bring money with them. Throw open the doors! Bring us your gay, your cash, your good taste in clothes! Maybe Vancouver could become a Milan.

Fifth, what's going to happen with families? An affirmation of marriage between a man and a woman would finally show that a traditional family is something to be valued.

Affirmation of some over the denial of others is not a positive thing, is it?