This sucks...

[Harry Seldon]

Originally posted by Sava
Shame on me... explain why I am ignorant Harry...

the opinion which seems to be bothering you is that I think that there are less black rich and upper middle class proportionally than the rest of the economic classes... it's my personal observation... am I wrong? please educate me... if not... stop your pointless threadjack.

Your opinion on the numbers and proportions of rich and middle class citizens is not what I've been arguing against. You seem to think that minorities have this raw deal and deserve special treatment because they are minorities. I think that's wrong. Poor education usually means poor schools. It appeared to me that you were equating minority education with poor education funding. I pointed out that rural white poor kids have the same predicament, whereupon you started in on the "rich white folk" angle. You seemed to be pulling numbers from somewhere; I just asked to see them. Now you're asking me to prove you wrong and accusing me of threadjacking. At least you admitted it was a personal opinion.

Is this a fair synopsis so far?

[Sava]

You seem to think that minorities have this raw deal and deserve special treatment because they are minorities.

nope... read my posts...

Is this a fair synopsis so far?

no... the above interpretation of my posts is where your train of thought flew off track.

[Harry Seldon]

Please correct me then.

[Sava]

I believe the education system as a whole should be changed so that EVERY CHILD, regardless of income, race, etc... receives an equal opprotunity. AA for the poor is just as wrong as AA for blacks.

[Japher]

Yet, Sava does feel that currently, Blacks and other minorities would be discrimiated against if not for AA... Right?

[Kaak]

Originally posted by Theben
Damn, DF, looks like you might have to see a non-caucasian from time to time at school.

^^^^^^^^obviously has never visited UT campus

[Sava]

Originally posted by Japher
Yet, Sava does feel that currently, Blacks and other minorities would be discrimiated against if not for AA... Right?

I can't speculate on that hypothetical... my point, which I have made repeatedly, is that white's AREN'T suffering from discrimination as anti-AA people have been saying.

[Harry Seldon]

Then they should have a lottery for admissions. That begs the question of how daddy's little boy/girl gets in, though.

That sounds alot like the "no child left behind" crap. I don't believe that will work. All it will do is lower our education standards even further. I attended a college that believed this and it turned out that during our term we spent half the time learning new theory and application and the other half trying to grind the first half into the heads of the idiots in the class who just didn't get it.

[Ben Kenobi]

Lots of good points. Income based AA is just bursaries, and they should be available to qualified applicants to the universities.

We don't have that problem here in Canada, rather the opposite, in that we do not have enough university spaces for the students.

Our averages hover at around 82% for people just to get in, and that has risen around 4% just over the last 5 years!

[GePap]

Oh, yes, horrid AA.I mean, it has even brought the pecentages of black and hispanic students into some colleges into double digits! (nowhere near their percentage fo the local population still). We can have that many "darkies" reading books!!

I went to an extremely competaive high school, mostly white and asian, the sort of school in which 99% go on to college and 20-25% to Ivy leagues. Now, the thing was, so many kids from that one high school aplied to the ivy leagues that our chances to get in actually went down..after all, if 50 kids from our school apply, and 20 are fully qualified, that still means 20 kids in one Ivy class from the same single highschool!? Can't possibly have that! So we will let in less qualified students from other highschools in, simply to avoid so damn many kids from the same highschool.......and this sort of blatant discrimination against middle class white, jewish and asian kids from the tri-state area is rampant out east, just cause there are too damn many qualified applicants..so any of you kids from the cornbelt and out in loony land out west, know that even if a lesser candidate, you stand a better chance to get into presigeous East coast schools!

(maybe people out west give a damn about AA much more cause public u's set up wth state aid handle most education, as opposed to the thirving private university industry that controls the east).

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Sava
Your arguing with me as if I were a supporter of AA... perhaps you got the wrong idea somewhere. Reread my earlier posts to find out what I believe.

I'm not arguing with you. I just used your statement as a jumping off point

Just out of curiosity I started looking at some schools in my home state. I went to Arkansas State and was surprised because I thought there were more minorities there. Here is the website I found that gives some basic info on schools around the country.

http://www.studentsreview.com/

Arkansas State

University Makeup (2000-2001)
# of Undergrads: 9,426
# of Grad students: 1,142
Total Students: 10,568
42% Male, 58% Female

International: 1.2%
African-American: 12.6%
American Indian: 0.2%
Asian: 0.7%
Hispanic: 12.6%
Caucasian (non-hispan): 84.2%
Unknown: 0.3%

University Of Arkansas

University Makeup (2002-2003)
# of Undergrads: 12,818
# of Grad students: 2,934
Total Students: 15,752
52% Male, 48% Female

International: 3.2%
African-American: 6.1%
American Indian: 2.0%
Asian: 2.7%
Hispanic: 6.1%
Caucasian (non-hispan): 83.3%
Unknown: 1.1%

[Harry Seldon]

Originally posted by GePap
Oh, yes, horrid AA.I mean, it has even brought the pecentages of black and hispanic students into some colleges into double digits! (nowhere near their percentage fo the local population still). We can have that many "darkies" reading books!!

I went to an extremely competaive high school, mostly white and asian, the sort of school in which 99% go on to college and 20-25% to Ivy leagues. Now, the thing was, so many kids from that one high school aplied to the ivy leagues that our chances to get in actually went down..after all, if 50 kids from our school apply, and 20 are fully qualified, that still means 20 kids in one Ivy class from the same single highschool!? Can't possibly have that! So we will let in less qualified students from other highschools in, simply to avoid so damn many kids from the same highschool.......and this sort of blatant discrimination against middle class white, jewish and asian kids from the tri-state area is rampant out east, just cause there are too damn many qualified applicants..so any of you kids from the cornbelt and out in loony land out west, know that even if a lesser candidate, you stand a better chance to get into presigeous East coast schools!

(maybe people out west give a damn about AA much more cause public u's set up wth state aid handle most education, as opposed to the thirving private university industry that controls the east).

So did you go to an Ivy league school? Regardless of race, did having less competitive students not make you feel that your Ivy league experience was less valuable because maybe you aren't challenged as much? I equate this to some of my certifications. With boot camps and cheat sheets unqualified and ignorant people can attain a certification in technology. I'm good at what I do but my certifications are becoming meaningless because of unqualified people are making them so. This is a fairly extreme example but it has the potential to spread to college degrees and such.

[C0ckney]

this is a perfect AA thread. you've got people complaining about it first off, the usual suspects defending it, bods trolling and sava being an ignorant dickhead. what more do you want.

[Kaak]

Here's a novel idea. Don't include any space for race on university applications. Have the application review process set up so that the names aren't even visible to those reviewing the application, that way only those with the best qualifications are accepted

[Neutrino]

Hmm.. I suspect the # of Asians here at UT will drop next year..