This sucks...

[Harry Seldon]

It's not even as if blacks and Asian (Hispanics in US) actually want to be given a helping hand anyway. I certainly wouldn't want other people feeling I'd got a job or uni placement because of my skin colour and not merit.

It may be like that where you are but here that is not the case. Laziness is the one trait that truly transcends racial boundries in the US.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Sava
Why... do you disagree that the majority of rich and upper middle class are white?

I'm asking why it is important to begin with. If schools concentrated on helping out poor students regardless of color there wouldn't be any leg for criticts to stand on. Otherwise you get a situation where the schools have to draw a line somewhere. How black do you have to be to be considered black? Do they put more hispanics than blacks? Do they distinguish between Mexicans and El Salvadorians?


If they would simply increase help for poor students then the only people that would be left complaining are rich people.

[Harry Seldon]

Why... do you disagree that the majority of rich and upper middle class are white?

Do you deny that the majority of people in the US are white? You're proving nothing with this, Sava. Either label it an opinion or post some proof.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Sprayber


I'm asking why it is important to begin with. If schools concentrated on helping out poor students regardless of color there wouldn't be any leg for criticts to stand on. Otherwise you get a situation where the schools have to draw a line somewhere. How black do you have to be to be considered black? Do they put more hispanics than blacks? Do they distinguish between Mexicans and El Salvadorians?


If they would simply increase help for poor students then the only people that would be left complaining are rich people.

Your arguing with me as if I were a supporter of AA... perhaps you got the wrong idea somewhere. Reread my earlier posts to find out what I believe.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Harry Seldon


Do you deny that the majority of people in the US are white? You're proving nothing with this, Sava. Either label it an opinion or post some proof.

The sky is blue... do you need statistics for that too?

[Japher]

Sava is right that per capta there are more rich white people then their are poor white people, while their are more poor blacks then their are rich blacks.

Maybe it's just that "minorities" in the US are less intelligent. All the signs point that way.

I have stated before that many minorites are plagued and burdened by a sense of racial pride that manifests itself as bigotry and racism. In turn this attitude suppress' themselves as they are more concerned to be acepted by their "poorer" peirs than to rise above them and join the ranks with new "richer", and for now "whiter", peers...

Don't be a sell-out or an Oreo you dillhole!

[Solly]

"Why... do you disagree that the majority of rich and upper middle class are white?"

Yeah and the majority of criminals are black. I think these two things shows the whites up in a good way don't you?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Sava
The sky is blue... do you need statistics for that too?

Could this be good sig material?

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by Sava
I still have yet to see one white person whose life has been destroyed by the terrible ATROCITY of affirmative action...

I don't agree with AA, but at this point, it's better than doing nothing.

AA is nessecarily discriminatory against white people. College admissions a zero sum game; there are a large number of people competing for a limited number of slots. By giving spots to otherwise unqualified people because of their race, you are denying the spot to someone else.

"If they were honest about giving people who need help a hand they'd have class-based affirmative action and give people from poor families a boost on admissions. But (especially at private schools) that would be damn expansive and its so much easier, cheaper and more superficially diverse to just let in any middle-class minority kids they can get their hands on and give the poor bastards of all ethnicities who were stuck going to **** schools because they're from an area with low property values the shaft..."

Boshko speaks the truth!

"But you know what, every child born in America should have an equal opprotunity in terms of education."

The question is, what is the source of the lack of opportunity: income or race?

With income, you have easily observable advantages that go to high-income people. A higher income student is likely to attend better pre-university schools that will prepare them for the admissions process. A higher income student is less likely to have to work a part-time job that would take away from time at schoolwork. A higher income student is more likely to have better gudiance counseling advising them through the admissions process. A higher income student is more likely to be able to afford good SAT prep coaching. A higher income student is more likely to be able to afford taking the SAT I multiple times and more likely to afford/have the time to prep for the SAT II's. A high income student likely has educated parents who instill education as a value to their kids strongly. A high income student might attend a prestigious enough high school that some Universities might give them points in the admissions process just for being from that high school. A very high income student might be able to hire their own private guidance counselor or even be able to get help via legacy status.

With race, it's a little harder to get objective measurements as to disadvantages. Are we to believe, teachers, one of the most liberal groups in society, are racist against their minority students? Have we seen evidence that they grade harder against minority students? That the SAT somehow penalizes minority students?

I think it's hard to demonstrate clearly that minority students are at as a disadvantage. Some minority students are due to the the fact that many are poor, but that is not all minority students. With income, however, we can see clear cut and real advantages that are plainly obvious. Therefore, we should go with income-based affirmative action, as opposed to race-based affirmative action.

[Harry Seldon]

The sky is blue... do you need statistics for that too?

And clouds are white. Can I say that because 90 million square miles of beautiful sky are visable as opposed to 10 million square miles of beautiful clouds that the sky has an obviously unfair advantage even though there are less clouds to begin with than sky.

Let me break it down for you in case that warps your fragile little mind. Let's take one hundred people. Ninety are white and ten are black. Ten percent of either race are rich. If you don't have a calculator handy, that's nine and one respectively. So am I to assume that because there are nine times as many rich white people that this equates to an obvious disadvantage to blacks?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Harry Seldon


And clouds are white. Can I say that because 90 million square miles of beautiful sky are visable as opposed to 10 million square miles of beautiful clouds that the sky has an obviously unfair advantage even though there are less clouds to begin with than sky.

Let me break it down for you in case that warps your fragile little mind. Let's take one hundred people. Ninety are white and ten are black. Ten percent of either race are rich. If you don't have a calculator handy, that's nine and one respectively. So am I to assume that because there are nine times as many rich white people that this equates to an obvious disadvantage to blacks?

you're still harping about this crap?

[Harry Seldon]

you're still harping about this crap?

I just hate to see someone who I usually agree with appear so ignorant. You've been a decent fallback for info in the past, as far as I've seen, but now the only thing you can bring to the table is vague statistics and propaganda. Shame on you, Sava. I never knew you gave up so easy. Is it only when you're wrong?

[Solly]

Shame on you Sava...

[Sava]

Shame on me... explain why I am ignorant Harry...

the opinion which seems to be bothering you is that I think that there are less black rich and upper middle class proportionally than the rest of the economic classes... it's my personal observation... am I wrong? please educate me... if not... stop your pointless threadjack.

[Japher]

explain why I am ignorant Harry

If you don't know that, then you truly are ignorant