US Conservatism vs UK

[Solly]

Well I'd like to know what the Tories *really* plan to do about asylum seekers. Clear effective stragegies please.

Crime?

Sink estates (ghettoes to you yanks)?

Free trade?

The economy and taxation?

That someone somewhat politically aware as I am hasn't a clue what their policies are with regards to the above plainly shows that their policies are either being kept hushed up (why?) or inexistant.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
Own goal...

Wrong forum my friend.

[*End Is Forever*]

Genuine asylum seekers should be allowed into the country. Illegal immigrants, however, will be treated as such.

[Solly]

"Genuine asylum seekers should be allowed into the country. Illegal immigrants, however, will be treated as such."

Differentiation occurs where and how?

[MikeH]

Asylum seekers are those who are in genuine danger in their own country, ie. Genuine refugees. Illegal immigrants are just economic refugees.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Boddington's
"Genuine asylum seekers should be allowed into the country. Illegal immigrants, however, will be treated as such."

Differentiation occurs where and how?

Whither someone fills out the correct paper work or not I believe.

[Sava]

I can't speak about British problems, but I can offer some general solutions.

Crime?

A symptom of poverty and lack of education. Offer job placement/training programs and free education.

Sink estates (ghettoes to you yanks)?

Same as above...

Free trade?

Treaties that include Western labor standards... bans on child/forced labor, standard work weeks, rights to unionize

The economy and taxation?

Progressive... let the poor and middle classes create wealth... the rich have enough.

[*End Is Forever*]

Fair point. Someone has to make a judgement somewhere as to whether asylum seekers are actually genuinely fleeing persecution. That's really a matter for the professionals on the ground though.

One area where dramatic improvement is needed and achievable is in ensuring that those who are turned away are actually deported rather than have the majority of them "disappear" as happens at present.

[MikeH]

We do all that already although the French wouldn't let us cancel the CAP.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Sava

Crime.

A symptom of poverty and lack of education. Offer job placement/training programs and free education.

For the most part I agree but there certainly are a few people who will simply be bad apples no matter what we do. Also there are a number of very well educated, very rich, and very intelligent criminals.

[Sava]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
Fair point. Someone has to make a judgement somewhere as to whether asylum seekers are actually genuinely fleeing persecution. That's really a matter for the professionals on the ground though.

Why does it matter? Free countries should be free to all... not just those lucky enough to be native born.

One area where dramatic improvement is needed and achievable is in ensuring that those who are turned away are actually deported rather than have the majority of them "disappear" as happens at present.

Closed borders and deportation programs cost money... in fact, it is probably less of a burden on tax payers if immigrants are allowed in. Put people to work with government work programs, create programs to grant citizenship based upon government or military service, etc... the trick is, to create a system where immigrants are able to work for the government, rather than become a burden on it. If we can put a man on the moon and create weapons of mass destruction, surely we can put our minds to work and create a set of social programs that society profits from.

[*End Is Forever*]

The solution to CAP is to make the issue non-negotiable. That's what we have a veto for. It's quite plainly absurd to everyone and only defended on a "dog in the manger" basis. If the French can use that threat over CAP then there is absolutely no reason for us not to retaliate.

Reform (preferably abolition) of the CAP in favour of genuine free trade has long been Tory policy.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Oerdin


For the most part I agree but there certainly are a few people who will simply be bad apples no matter what we do. Also there are a number of very well educated, very rich, and very intelligent criminals.

I agree, but they are fewer and far between. Decreasing poverty will decrease crime... that's a simple fact. Crime will always exist, but the goal of society should be to create a system that decreases crime. Decreased crime also decreases law enforcement costs.

[MikeH]

It's Labour policy as well. *shrug*

[Solly]

"Someone has to make a judgement somewhere as to whether asylum seekers are actually genuinely fleeing persecution. That's really a matter for the professionals on the ground though."

If it's a job for the professionals, how is their performance affected by the governing party?

Eradicating tuition fees is a very interesting Tory policy. You'd think it would help more poor people get to uni - in fact it serves to help the middle classes more.

What is wrong with suggesting a "needs blind" policy - during the selection and admissions process, income of student is hidden from universities. Those who can pay do, those who can't don't (of course on some sort of sliding scale etc).