US Conservatism vs UK

[MikeH]

UK Uni drop out rates:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2585101.stm

Very variable. Most Uni rates are under 20%. UK average is 10%.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by MikeH
UK Uni drop out rates:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2585101.stm

Very variable. Most Uni rates are under 20%. UK average is 10%.

Those numbers look better then the over all US average. Do you know if some schools have significantly more students then others? I ask because wouldn't a weighted average show the true drop out rate?

[Solly]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet


As long as they're required to provide an address it won't entirely hide their (or their family's) income. How many poor people live in leafy suburbs? How many rich people live on inner-city council estates?

It isn't a fool-proof system of course, but a great deal about somebody's wealth can be guessed at from their post-code alone.

Addresses would be hidden *to those making the decision*.

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
It's Labour's policy of increasing the number of useless, mediocre "University" courses that is increasing the number of middle class students in University. By cutting out the chaff, we will ensure that it is only the academically suitable that enter University. At the moment, many students at the weaker Universities are there simply because it is the "done thing" for middle-class kids to go to University, regardless of whether it is in their interest to do so...

Your degree wasn't political history was it? I worked in a polytechnic from 1987 to '89. The choice of pointless courses was pretty vast then, let alone now. IIRC deciding to call polytechnics "universities" happened before 1997 as well.

I'm sure you would like to argue that Conservative policy is different now. For me political leopards rarely change their spots.

FWIW you are right that there are too many kids wasting their time in university and justifying the education industry. However the solution lies in offering alternatives - "market forces", not cutting university places. The problem is changing a culture where it is almost expected that job applicants for stacking supermarket shelves have degrees.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Those numbers look better then the over all US average. Do you know if some schools have significantly more students then others? I ask because wouldn't a weighted average show the true drop out rate?

The average for the country and regions for all students, are in there, they are the stripes across the table in yellowy brown.

That's where the 10% overall rate came from. It's more expensive here than it used to be but still loads cheaper to go to college here than in the US. Probably explains the lower drop out rates (most drop outs here are for financial reasons).

[FrustratedPoet]

The people making the decision need to know what school the pupils attended, though, don't they? That's going to give them some clues too.

Note that I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I don't think it would be entirely effective at disguising income. It couldn't hurt, though, IMHO.

[MikeH]

Why do they need to know what school they attended?

[Solly]

Yeah, come on FP, why?

[Dinner]

Wouldn't the transcripts have the school name on it?

[Worthingtons]

Very interesting thread

I think US Conservatism is more right, and therefore better than UK conservatism. I also believe however, that at this point in time it works better for the US, than it would over here.


Good points from EiF about UK Universities , Labour havent got a clue, the ease of University allows any joe bloggs to go now, and not those with Merit. Labour have messed up Education.

As for council estates, although most of my life i have lived in extremely affluent areas, since moving away from my parents i've discovered these lower-class areas (the better one's that is) are a pleasant place to live. People are friendly, they are genuine, and there are nice traditional elements to society like Butchers and stuff preserved there. The area where i live is mainly private but still lower class, it has improved my opinion on the lower-class a lot.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
The solution to CAP is to make the issue non-negotiable. That's what we have a veto for.

I think the veto can be used to make thign schange. We could and should have vetoed it at the start, but now we cannot. Indeed, the French could veto any attempt to remove it (unless I'm mistaken?) I think that's one issue we need QMV on.

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
Reform (preferably abolition) of the CAP in favour of genuine free trade has long been Tory policy.

As it is Labour, although it is not possible without French consent (and thus heavy bribes from us) but didn't the Tory's sign it in the first place?

Originally posted by Boddington's
What is wrong with suggesting a "needs blind" policy - during the selection and admissions process, income of student is hidden from universities.

Couldn't agree more. However I thought it alkready was? I applied and got my offers before finance was discussed. That only comes about in April, way after application and most offers are given out. Income doesn't come into it in the UK.

Originally posted by Boddington's
Those who can pay do, those who can't don't (of course on some sort of sliding scale etc).

I would like to make sure that all can, and those that cannot afford it are given enough help so they can afford it, but those with enough pay. Kind of like the system we have currently, but with better funding and fewer students (it makes me feel so dirty agreeing with a Tory policy without caveats )

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
It's Labour's policy of increasing the number of useless, mediocre "University" courses that is increasing the number of middle class students in University. By cutting out the chaff, we will ensure that it is only the academically suitable that enter University. At the moment, many students at the weaker Universities are there simply because it is the "done thing" for middle-class kids to go to University, regardless of whether it is in their interest to do so...

Originally posted by Oerdin
Maybe we should drop this idea that everyone needs to go to college; maybe it would be better to send some people to technical school where they can learn a trade.

[HershOstropoler]

As for CAP:

It's not just the French who have their pork in CAP. The "veto" in CAP is political, and intertwined with budget and treaty reform issues. And you can't veto an existing policy anyway.

[Sandman]

I honestly don't about asylum seekers at all. Even at their highest level, the numbers are trivial. Make legal immigration easier and we won't have to fork out for accomodation centres and benefits, whilst they are forbidden to work.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
And you can't veto an existing policy anyway.

You can veto it's removal IIRC. We can't veto it no to get rid of it, but the French could veto us trying to remove it.

[Solly]

Couldn't agree more. However I thought it alkready was? I applied and got my offers before finance was discussed. That only comes about in April, way after application and most offers are given out. Income doesn't come into it in the UK.

Postcodes do...