US Conservatism vs UK

[HershOstropoler]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*


I disagree. UK Conservatism is inherently far less conservative and right-wing than conservatism in the USA. Organisations such as CPAC (http://www.cpac.org/) are very much part of the mainstream in the States - I believe Cheney addressed their conference this year - whereas their approximate equivalents over here have long since been chucked out of the Conservative Party for their unacceptable views. Right-wing members of Conservative Way Forward (the Thatcherite wing, for whom I have little time) have travelled to CPAC and other US conservative events and been appalled.

There is a very strong core of classical liberalism within the UK Conservative Party that seemingly barely exists within the Republicans. I'm a card-carrying Tory but I'd never vote Republican in the States.

Yup. You might be able to integrate the center-half of the Reps into the Tories as their right wing, but the other half would just be the nutty fringe of the political spectrum.

[*End Is Forever*]

You can't just "abolish poverty" with the click of a finger. Social democracy and socialism in practice have never provided tangible benefits for the working class and "underclass" in this country. Free education is there for everyone in this country (though it's of dubious quality in parts); the challenge is to raise the aspirations of those who currently for whatever reason reject the education system. I spend three weeks each summer working with kids from some of the worst schools in Salford and Manchester, and it is worrying that over half of the bright-eyed, eager, intelligent kids I see every year are likely to drop out of school at 16. If kids with deprived backgrounds and poor parents can be encouraged to stay on in education and higher their sights, then we're well on our way. Socialism keeps them "in their place".

[MikeH]

It's their parents fault, not the government's. Their parents don't allow them to expect anything better than they already have so they don't.

[Dinner]

EiF: How do you get them to do that? This seems like an exercise in forcing a horse to drink after you've lead them to water.

[Solly]

And parenting attitudes and behaviour is one of the last things governments can ever hope to affect.

[*End Is Forever*]

Eradicating tuition fees is a very interesting Tory policy. You'd think it would help more poor people get to uni - in fact it serves to help the middle classes more.

It's Labour's policy of increasing the number of useless, mediocre "University" courses that is increasing the number of middle class students in University. By cutting out the chaff, we will ensure that it is only the academically suitable that enter University. At the moment, many students at the weaker Universities are there simply because it is the "done thing" for middle-class kids to go to University, regardless of whether it is in their interest to do so...

[MikeH]

And at least Socialism tries to give them a chance. Conservatism is all about saying if they want a chance they'll take it themselves, we're not paying for it.

[*End Is Forever*]

Originally posted by Boddington's
And parenting attitudes and behaviour is one of the last things governments can ever hope to affect.

True, but when the stakes are so high, it's unacceptable not to try.

[Dinner]

The drop out rates from college are pretty high. Something like 1 in 4 don't make it to graduation. Maybe we should drop this idea that everyone needs to go to college; maybe it would be better to send some people to technical school where they can learn a trade.

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by Boddington's
What is wrong with suggesting a "needs blind" policy - during the selection and admissions process, income of student is hidden from universities. Those who can pay do, those who can't don't (of course on some sort of sliding scale etc).

As long as they're required to provide an address it won't entirely hide their (or their family's) income. How many poor people live in leafy suburbs? How many rich people live on inner-city council estates?

It isn't a fool-proof system of course, but a great deal about somebody's wealth can be guessed at from their post-code alone.

[MikeH]

Is that UK drop out rates?

[Dinner]

What's a city council estate?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by MikeH
Is that UK drop out rates?

US. UK can't be that much different.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Oerdin


US. UK can't be that much different.

It is very different in most things, don't know why this would be a special case.

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by Oerdin
What's a city council estate?

Large areas of cheap housing built by the local councils for the less-affluent to live. Some of them are perfectly fine whereas some others are like a suburb of Hell. None of them, however, are home to wealthy families.