Growing up in an irreligious household.

[Shi Huangdi]

JohnT:

You say that you had been attending Mass more recently? Perhaps God is reaching out towards you, using Sophie's entrie in your life to give you an opportunity to get closer to him?

I know I am not the best Catholic either, and it disturbs me greatly how I often find myself the ambassador of Catholicism to this forum. However, you and I are both adults, we know to a much greater extent what we do and we know that we will be accountable to God for our own actions. Sophie, obviously is not the same way, she needs your help, and you are responsible for her and her upbringing. And while you can be accountable for your own actions, you should want Sophie not to be spiritually harmed by being denied a religious upbringing. Yes, I know some people do come to religion even if not brought up that way, but more often then not I seem to notice people brought up without religion tend to have inertia set in and stay that way.

In short, even if you are not the best spiritually, you should still to try to provide her upbringing spiritually the best you can just as I sure you will in every aspect of her life. As for the teaching of the Church, take it or leave it, you will be accountable to God for whatever disadvantages you impart.

I am horribly sorry, I know I am not the best persuador, but I am doing the best I can in gving you an answer. I humbly apologize for any failings in my post and I wish the best for you and your family. I do urge you though- don't rely on mostly secularists in making this crucial decision. Whether from your Church or from the forum I mentioned or from whoever, I strongly encourage you to seek more Catholic input into your decision.

[java4me]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
JohnT:

You say that you had been attending Mass more recently? Perhaps God is reaching out towards you, using Sophie's entrie in your life to give you an opportunity to get closer to him?

I know I am not the best Catholic either, and it disturbs me greatly how I often find myself the ambassador of Catholicism to this forum. However, you and I are both adults, we know to a much greater extent what we do and we know that we will be accountable to God for our own actions. Sophie, obviously is not the same way, she needs your help, and you are responsible for her and her upbringing. And while you can be accountable for your own actions, you should want Sophie not to be spiritually harmed by being denied a religious upbringing. Yes, I know some people do come to religion even if not brought up that way, but more often then not I seem to notice people brought up without religion tend to have inertia set in and stay that way.

In short, even if you are not the best spiritually, you should still to try to provide her upbringing spiritually the best you can just as I sure you will in every aspect of her life. As for the teaching of the Church, take it or leave it, you will be accountable to God for whatever disadvantages you impart.

I am horribly sorry, I know I am not the best persuador, but I am doing the best I can in gving you an answer. I humbly apologize for any failings in my post and I wish the best for you and your family. I do urge you though- don't rely on mostly secularists in making this crucial decision. Whether from your Church or from the forum I mentioned or from whoever, I strongly encourage you to seek more Catholic input into your decision.

I concur

[JohnT]

Thanks Shi, your sincerity is very much appreciated.

[:) Smiley]

I wouldn't necessarily give her a religious education, but do give her a sense of morality and social justice. Perhaps a patriotic upbringing?

[Drake Tungsten]

Of couse, a Congregationalist upbringing is hardly as intense as Catholicism... damn papists!

God, "papists" is just a damn fine word. It is used far too sparingly.

[DanielXY]

Ppl. usually form a believe or disbelieve in god between the age of 10 and 20. Some change that later.
But Kids younger than 10 will believe in god the same way they would believe in Santa Claus or something. They believe it because the parents told them so.

So in conclusion I would not tell her all that much (only if she comes up with it on her own) till she is 10 or you think she is ready. Than you tell her and she can form her own opinion.

Dunno if thats practicable, but I guess I would try it that way

[Maniac]

I think most young people in Western Europe were raised irreligiously. I doubt it had a negative effect on us.

[Starchild]

How very odd. My family and I had this exact same conversation last night. Well, not exactly the exact same. As in it wasn't about JohnT at all.

My mum (who more or less raised my sister and I singlehandedly) never expressed one view or another about religion while we were growing up. Well, except when she swore but goddamn is hardly a religious statement of faith. My aunt brought up her children in the same way. I trace all this back to my maternal grandparents who, despite having grown up in a much more religious age, have expressed almost atheistic sympathies as they've grown older. This in spite of a relative of my grandmother having once had the Chair for Theology at Cambridge University. Go figure.

Anyway, my family has been irreligious since before I was born. We're a mixed bunch of non-believing Protestants (with one non-believing Catholic via marriage) and the handful of atheists (ie, me and my grandmother). This in no way has impaired us. We've got firm concepts of morality and community without having to go to Church every Sunday.

That said, it would be wrong to state that religion wasn't part of my life. I mean, I've read the Bible, gone to a protestant sunday prayer, a Confirmation, and a Catholic Easter Mass (*shudder*). I've celebrated Passover and been invited to a Hindu temple. I've explored religion but my family didn't rule one way or the other on it. I eventually weighed up what I saw and made my own conclusions.

That's by far the best thing you can do for Sophie. Explain to her that her beliefs are her own and, whatever they are (save cult worship or Mormanism ) you'll accept them. If she asks questions, answer them. If she wants to explore other religions, help her to the best of your ability. In time, she will decide what religion or mix of religions suits her best. That decision won't be one forced on her from an age when she's too young to grasp the ramifications but one that she makes when she's mature enough to decide for herself.

Word of warning though, recently my cousins have been complaining that the irreligious upbringing has left them "not knowing what they are". Frankly to me that sounds like a desperate search for a label they can stick on to the next census instead of a heartfelt exploration of spirituality. Oooh, seems I've let the claws out. Tsk tsk, bad Starchild.

[CerberusIV]

Difficult question.

My religious upbringing consisted of prayers at morning assembly in school - that means everyone mumbled the words whilst thinking of something else. My parents never discussed religion, both having abandoned any form of worship in their teenage years. Not having any real knowledge of religion to draw on didn't do any harm but it would have been useful to understand more about why religion motivates people, particularly the extremists, when I was younger.

After looking at several religions I eventually settled on being a pagan. Having said that I don't exactly shout about it, it's a personal belief and no-one else's business.

My partners case may be more relevant as she was a Catholic. Her mother was a regular churchgoer whilst her father wasn't catholic, didn't convert but did agree to their children being raised in the faith. I don't think it was anything to do with me but she stopped practicing catholicism about 10 years ago and has become an agnostic.

We don't have any children so I am not well placed to advise but I would suggest Sophie should have

1 A firm moral framework (whether religiously inspired or not) - lead by example here!

2 An awareness that a minority of people can get very worked up over this religion thing

and when she is older that

3 Some religious groups/sects are not well intentioned and can have very seductive recruitment techniques.

[Evil Knevil]

It's pretty pot-luck wether your child joins a cult/ absence of presense of faith doesn't effect that.

I'm not going to bother talking about my would-be practices, but if my child reached a certain age, say 8-9 and wanted to go to church I'd probably take them. However I'd have issue with teachers that bang on about God and those that put Jesus into everything.

"Son, why is the sky blue?"
"Because Jesus made it that way".

I'd avoid barmy indoctrination, like Bible camps and Sunday school. If there were simular things for child atheists, I'd avoid them too

Interesting footnote: My brother in law converted to Islam to marry somebody. Mainly because her parents are traditionalists. He's made quite a few new friends, becoming a regular at the Mosques on Friday. He doesn't however do things like expect Shia (the wife) to be covered, or do more than the morning and evening prayers. He hates his dog now that it keeps licking him when he's doing morning prayers (not Wudu).
As long as he makes the appearance of religion. Maybe it's enough for him as well.

He's going to raise his kids in Islam, but he says he isn't going to enrole them in a Madrassa or force them to take Koran classes. I think this will be a major issue when they have sprogs.

He's also been passed over for promotion twice since converting... his workplace is quite hostile to it.

[Rogan Josh]

You should teach her to be a critical thinker.

But that should be on all levels. She shouldn't believe the crap the media (and people in general) spout about science either. She should learn to evaluate things herself, making use of her own feelings and experiences, and perform her own research before coming to decisions.

There is nothing wrong with telling her about Jesus and the bible, or about what atheists believe, but you shouldn't order her to believe one thing or the other.

I think you should make it clear to her that it is an important decision though.

[monolith94]

"Don't forget that I'm interested in your parents as well - were they believers, did they stop going to church the second their youngest kid left the house, were they apathetic/hostile to religion, etc?"

Well, my mom's always been pretty religious, but in a very easygoing liberal way. My dad was raised catholic, but he had a BIG falling out with the Catholic church, and doesn't respect it all any more, so he joined my mom in Congregationalism. So yeah, they're both 'believers'. I'm not sure whether they went to church often before I was born, but I'm sure they went occasionally. I've been going to the same church all my life, from baptism to confirmation, and we pretty much go every week. I don't anymore, but it's not because I hate church - I don't. I find the sermons interesting, enjoy singing along, etc... It's just I can't get up that early on a Sunday... My parents understand.

Bringing your kid to church every day is not the indoctrination that people here are calling it, or at least it wasn't at my church. I would go to church, and sunday school would be occasionally bible stories, plus some arts and crafts, and a donation for the poor, and then a prayer to wrap it all off. Then coffee hour, with all the goodies.

I don't know, maybe in other more hardcore religions there is an increased pressure towards indoctrination, but I never felt my independence or choice was at stake. I know that that's how it is with Congregationalist churches, and there's even less pressure at Universalist Unitarian churches!!! There are so many types of Protestant sects that if you choose one, you should do your research: are they open and affirming? What is their policy on baptism? Are you personally in favor of baptism?

Going to church for my family has been a great source of experience, wealth of knowledge, a place to meet friends, and a totally supportive community. Occasionally I would not want to go to church, but my parents would make me come. And it's true, sometimes I was bored, but it was never that bad. If your kids don't have the patience to get through a short church service, you have bigger problems...

[St Leo]

Re: Growing up in an irreligious household.

Originally posted by JohnT
Therefore, we were wondering what would be the effects if we raised Sophie (Sophia when she's being naughty) in an irreligious environment and if anybody here has been raised in such an environment. And by "irreligious" I don't mean "Dad was actively atheist and would go on and on about the horrors of religion", more like "my parents didn't really care about all that so we never went to church."

I was raised irreligiously with a couple metric tonnes of standard fairy tales and plenty of popular culture. It never really came up. I was aware of the whole religion thing so novels that mentioned it didn't freak me out.

The views I've professed here are all of my own and not of my parents. Take that as you will. Of course, there might be other social issues in your country. I cannot comment on that.

[ajbera]

Originally posted by Evil Knevil
He hates his dog now that it keeps licking him when he's doing morning prayers (not Wudu).

This bothers me. Islam is not a dog-friendly religion (evidently Mohammed loved cats instead) and most Muslims consider dogs unclean (well, they are, but that doesn't mean you should be cruel to them). Feel free to pop him in the nose if he starts being mean to the dog.

[Dis]

I don't want you to totally discount religious schools.

religious schools for the most part are much, much better than public schools.

You just have to give your child a talk when he/she's old enough about the religious stuff they are taught in school. Explain that is one group of people's beliefs and people all over the world have different relgions.