Growing up in an irreligious household.

[Soul Survivor]

Originally posted by Agathon


If you mean by "deal with", pretend rather than face up to it, then yes.

so you'd rather tell your 6 year old that they'll never see their grandma ever again, and someday they'll end up the same way? dead and forgotten.

In my experience religious people tend to suffer the same rate of ******* occurrence as the rest of us. Despite the claims of religion I have never seen evidence to the opposite.

That may be entirely true. But there is no denying Christian morals and ethics are an inherently good way to live.

It's irrational and should not be taught to children at all. It's hopeless trying to tell your children the value of honesty and integrity and then inflict such wild and flagrantly self contradictory hypotheses on them. In answer to religious questions and questions about death and destinty it's best to say "nobody really knows" since that is pretty much the truth.

What kind of ****ing depressing life are you living??? They're nice myths to know and experience. Just because kids are taught Christian beliefs early in life doesn't mean they're going to turn out to be fundamentalist wacko's going on Crusades to free the holy land. Kids are not ready for reality, and their exposure to it should be in small doses until they're ready. Let them enjoy their childhood, so at least they'll think they have answers instead of constantly asking "Why?... I don't know" A kid needs a parent, part of being a parent is knowing everything.

Yes, questioning ideas and beliefs is a good thing, but kids don't need to be taught that until they're 11 or 12 years old. Its not like they're going to revolutionize quantum theory at that point! A child's mind is not rational, therefore trying to impose a rational system on them from the beginning will only hurt them in the long run. Why should an entire generation of children lose their childhood?

Besides, like AH pointed out church provides children with many social oppurtunities. I'm not advocating that children should be forced to read the bible to the letter, just that they experience religion until they're ready to start making their own ideas!

[Q Classic]

johnt: it's your duty to raise the child catholic. that's what the church says.

unlike you, i grew up in a religious household. mom was, after all, a convert, and converts are always more devout than those born into the faith.

if you do decide to raise sophie in the faith, start going to mass ever week; it'll be hard at first, but it gets easier as time goes on. and hell, it's only and hour or so a week. enroll the kid in sunday school.

they'll start questioning their beliefs and growing spiritually in a truly meaningful way by the time they turn into teens anyway, so don't worry about them being so brainwashed.

if you decide not to raise the child in your faith, don't restrict their access to it. if a friend wants to take them to church, let them (unless they're southern baptist. i don't think you want your kid scarred at an early age by being told she's going to hell.) be there for them, and answer their questions with your answers as best as you can, and help them explore.

in the end, it's up to you. but you might as well cover all the bases by going ahead and baptising her.

[Alexander's Horse]

John

Major benefit of going to mass for fathers: It's about the only full waking hour all week when noone hassles me.

[MrFun]

Re: Growing up in an irreligious household.

Originally posted by JohnT
My wife and I were discussing religious education in regards to our 2 year old daughter and, well, we have a dilemma:

We aren't really religious. At all.

Why is this necessarily a dilemma?

[Asher]

Originally posted by JohnT
But that's a belief and not a demonstrable fact.

Um. Hello John, this is a thread about religion.

If you want demonstrable fact, just what do you think you're asking?

It is my belief that children should not be indoctrined with some faith. I wouldn't teach my children there is no God, but I wouldn't teach them that there is one either. It's up to them what they choose to believe when they're old enough to comprehend it.

It's the only fair way, as I can see it. Shoving faith down someone's throat is one of the worst ways to go about it -- people wonder why church attendance rates are abysmal these days.

As for the people who are saying it's the "duty of" John to brainwash his children -- do you not see the parallels with cults when you assign people "duties" to indoctrinate people?

[Alexander's Horse]

you need to go to church more Asher

[Ted Striker]

AH upskirts at church

[Asher]

I can find better things to do on Sundays than to listen to some boring old hag drone on and on about **** nobody is listening to. Everyone is in attendance because they feel somehow forced. They're apparently not bright enough to know that if a God did exist, and if this God did require worship, then this God would clearly be able to know that you did not want to be there, and went there out of obligation and not spirit.

Even if religion is correct, most church-goers are just as bad as people who stay home to watch football. At least the football watchers aren't being dishonest.

[Ted Striker]

I agree. Church blows. All I see are a bunch of cold-hearted rule followers doing their duty. Like taking the garbage out. They'd rathar doing something else besides take the garbage out but they feel obligated to do so.

I'd rathar sleep in.

[Alexander's Horse]

when you join the ruling class Ted you'll understand

[Ted Striker]

sheit

[monolith94]

Asher, your whole "resentful and bitter surface concealing an emotionally vulnerable core" thing isn't working out too good in this thread. Instead, you're beginning to sound like an athiest ann coulter.

[Imran Siddiqui]

He's also been passed over for promotion twice since converting... his workplace is quite hostile to it.

Well, if he's in the US, then he may have a pretty good Title VII claim against his workplace.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Soul Survivor

so you'd rather tell your 6 year old that they'll never see their grandma ever again, and someday they'll end up the same way? dead and forgotten.

Well, that's what I was told and it wasn't the terrible life-scarring experience you seem to think it would be.

If you read what I said, you will see that I recommend saying "Nobody knows" when it comes to religious and eschatalogical issues. I say that because it's the truth: nobody really knows.

That may be entirely true. But there is no denying Christian morals and ethics are an inherently good way to live.

Yes there is. I don't know why people assume there isn't. The puritanical attitude towards sex and the conservative economic attitudes of many Protestant denominations are not something that children should be browbeaten into believing.

What kind of ****ing depressing life are you living??? They're nice myths to know and experience. Just because kids are taught Christian beliefs early in life doesn't mean they're going to turn out to be fundamentalist wacko's going on Crusades to free the holy land.

I don't think that people should lie to their children about such matters. In any case it is a big step from lying to one's children to enrolling them in a religious cult, so your argument is invalid as it stands.

Kids are not ready for reality, and their exposure to it should be in small doses until they're ready. Let them enjoy their childhood, so at least they'll think they have answers instead of constantly asking "Why?... I don't know" A kid needs a parent, part of being a parent is knowing everything.

That's a terrible attitude to take. After all being afraid of things one doesn't know anything about is a hallmark of irrationality. The best thing for us to do as an example to our children is to know our limits. After all if it is made clear to them that nobody knows they aren't going to feel left out of it.

Yes, questioning ideas and beliefs is a good thing, but kids don't need to be taught that until they're 11 or 12 years old. Its not like they're going to revolutionize quantum theory at that point! A child's mind is not rational, therefore trying to impose a rational system on them from the beginning will only hurt them in the long run. Why should an entire generation of children lose their childhood?

This is empirically false. Children are often highly rational. In fact they are more rational than adults. This is because as new users of language they tend to be more finicky about the rules of logic because, as new and unsure users, they have to be. That is why they often ask such disarming (and wholly warranted) questions about (bad) adult behaviour.

Besides, like AH pointed out church provides children with many social oppurtunities. I'm not advocating that children should be forced to read the bible to the letter, just that they experience religion until they're ready to start making their own ideas!

I don't see why children should experience religion as some basis of belief. There are plenty of other ways in which children can enjoy social opportunities and some of these don't involve religious guilt tripping.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by JohnT
I do think the idea that it is wrong for a believing adult to inculcate their child into their religion (as has been argued to me on another board) is bizarre and kinda obliterates half the purpose of parenthood - to raise your child in the manner that you see fit.

Is that a bit arbitrary? What you see fit is not necessarily best for the child. Anybody think that way has no right to question the Muslim parents who teach their kids to become suicide bombers.

Originally posted by JohnT
If you believe in religion, teach the kid religion - after all, none of you are going to resist teaching your child about the importance of "critical thinking" and "thinking for yourself", etc. After all, that's what y'all "believe" in, isn't it?

No, neither of them are beliefs.

Critical thinking is a tool, you believe in critical thinking as much as you believe in a spoon.

Thinking for yourself is an attitude. Do you belief in snobbery, say?