Growing up in an irreligious household.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by st_swithin


Hey Arrian - if you ever run for public office, you'll DEFINITELY get my vote. And you can quote me.

Why thank you, but I don't think I'll ever put myself through that. I'd never get elected, for lots of reasons, I'm sure, but not least because at some point I'm guaranteed to tell someone what I really think of them, and that will be that.

JohnT - I've never had any problem telling people I don't believe. Granted, I live in CT, not TN. I know it's different down there. But I think that "sparing her the embassment" of being irreligious in a religious setting is a pretty bad reason to take her to church.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by JohnT


As mentioned above, this is one of my biggest issues with not going to church. Well put, AH!

In the old days Jews who had become militant atheists but wanted a "church" to belong to attended (founded?) the Society for Ethical Culture. Meet on Sunday mornings, guaranteed NOT to talk about God.

Dont suppose many of those in the South, though.

Or if occasionally mentioning God is ok, theres always the Unitarians. IIUC they sure wont force any particular beleifs on anyone

[JohnT]

One of my big problems is that I'm not the "believing" sort... I find it a bit unsettling to be among people who's eyes are glowing in anticipation of the "cause", regardless of whether the cause is political, religious, etc. I especially find the basic assumptions of Christianity hard to swallow, i.e.: that Jesus was the Son of God sent down specifically for the purpose using his death to guilt mankind into obedience.

I'm also disturbed at the lack of God's "official" presence over the past 2 millennia - you think that s/he would have the presence of mind to remind a civilization of doubters that "Yes, I do exist." I'm too much a creature of the Reformation and the Enlightenment to ever be comfortable outside my own counsel and to accept the unproven, divine wisdom of others.

[Arrian]

JohnT.

Teach your little girl how to think, and if she decides to become religious, so be it.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by JohnT
I'm also disturbed at the lack of God's "official" presence over the past 2 millennia - you think that s/he would have the presence of mind to remind a civilization of doubters that "Yes, I do exist." I'm too much a creature of the Reformation and the Enlightenment to ever be comfortable outside my own counsel and to accept the unproven, divine wisdom of others.

The "official" orthodox jewish line is that miracles have not been possible since the destruction of the Temple in 69 CE. And will not be possible again till the messiah comes and the temple is restored.

Some orthodox zionists see a miracle in the building of israel - and take great interest in the paradox that this miracle was largely carried out by agnostic and atheist secular zionists.

Chassidic jews, IIUC, still see claim occasional miracles, though theyre subtle.

Most Conservative and Reform Jews would see all divine action (including in ancient times) as occuring through man.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by JohnT
One of my big problems is that I'm not the "believing" sort... I find it a bit unsettling to be among people who's eyes are glowing in anticipation of the "cause", regardless of whether the cause is political, religious, etc. I especially find the basic assumptions of Christianity hard to swallow, i.e.: that Jesus was the Son of God sent down specifically for the purpose using his death to guilt mankind into obedience.

I'm also disturbed at the lack of God's "official" presence over the past 2 millennia - you think that s/he would have the presence of mind to remind a civilization of doubters that "Yes, I do exist." I'm too much a creature of the Reformation and the Enlightenment to ever be comfortable outside my own counsel and to accept the unproven, divine wisdom of others.

I think youd be quite comfortable in my synagogue - though our prayerbook has lots of stuff youd be uncomfortable with, the same lines make most of us uncomfortable - of course being Cons. Jews we prefer keeping old stuff and reinterpreting it, wrestling with it to changing it - unlike our Reform friends.

If you need to stay in a gentile environment, it sounds like you'd be comfortable in a Unitarian church, where i suspect alot of people would share your concerns and issues. Some of the recent debate about the Episcopalian church suggests some there also share your concerns, but im not really sure. You might ask Dr. Strangelove.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Or if occasionally mentioning God is ok, theres always the Unitarians. IIUC they sure wont force any particular beleifs on anyone

I know an atheist Unitarian minister...

[SlowwHand]

Bull****, KH. Not believing that one.

John, go to a religious-positive site.
Say, "Make me believe".
Otherwise, you're just asking for confirmation of non-belief, instead of seeking truth.

[Arrian]

He was asking for advice raising his daughter, not spiritual advice for himself, Sloww.

Your point about 'poly being irreligious has some truth to it, but I think you exaggerate.

-Arrian

[MikeH]

As I said before, compared to the UK in general this site has a very high proportion of practicing religious posters so it depends on your point of view.

[Japher]

Raise Sophie to worship Disney...

[SlowwHand]

He isn't going to send her to something he doesn't believe at all.
Well, he might. But that's a whole new can of worms.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by MikeH
As I said before, compared to the UK in general this site has a very high proportion of practicing religious posters so it depends on your point of view.

It's the Americans. Everywhere else has pretty much given up on religion.

Think about how often American politicians invoke God's name and how it almost never happens in other English speaking countries.

[Arrian]

First off, isn't Sophie really young?

IMO, one needs to be able to reason before one should be making choices about a belief system/faith. Obviously this is an irreligious point of view, since religions seem to like to get 'em young (sorry, couldn't help that one ). Therefore, I think high school & college elective courses and/or extracurricular study around that time is a good intro to religion. At that point, you should know how to think, and thus if you chose a religion, your choice has some weight to it.

Sending a child to "Sunday School" or whatever when they're in elementary/middle school is... well, I wouldn't do it. I'll leave it at that.

-Arrian

[Japher]

I would say take her to a nondemoniational church as they are less psycho, but I went to my wives church once and was taken as the guest pastor said "If you don't believe in Jesus Christ, the son of God, you will burn in hell!"

I laughed, got in trouble with the wife, and don't go back there except for Christmas... I have a good relationship with the real pastor there and he knows my views... Nice guy.

I was raised a Luthern, and thought it was fun at the time, but when I look back at it it was a real waste of time. Yet, I probably wouldn't be who I am today if it wasn't for the pastor there...

So, I would say find a church with a pastor or leader that you like, and don't worry about the denomination so much. Church is about finding faith, and a good pastor will understand if you find it somewhere else. Church is also about growing up, handling problems, and knowing that there is somewhere to turn if you need help... at least to me... more so than a book, idol worship, and some unseen, omniscient entity that only seems to be able to forgive...