Growing up in an irreligious household.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher

Huh? I was raised as a Christian. Went to church every Sunday, even went to Sunday school. I know very well what the curriciulum is and how they try to brainwash children.

I remember distinctly one of my "classmates" at sunday school asking how they can prove to him God exists, and he was basically told any more questions and God would be mad at him.

Well then, you certainly know that all religious education is brainwashing, since the religious education YOU received was.

By the same reasoning all reading education involves ****, Jane and spot, since the reading education i received did.

Or all religious education involves learning a foreign alphabet, since the religious education i received was.


Think logically

"I was given a X education. It involved Y, ergo all X education involves Y" Demonstrate why this reasoning is fallacious.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


The only Atheist party to control a large country was the Communists. They did some fairly nasty things to Jews.

I admit, singling out the Jews was bad. We should have nailed all your religious asses.

Who'd have thought that Asher would be a gay libertarian low-brow Ivan Karamazov?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


By the same reasoning all reading education involves ****, Jane and spot, since the reading education i received did.

apolyton censorship = now theres a reason for optimism, joy, and laughter, if ever there was one.

[Starchild]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


and what do you do when your little kid asks you if there is a god?

What do you do when your little kid asks you if the Hindu gods are real? Or wonders about the ancient gods that people prayed to, told stories of, and died for?

The thing that amazes me, truly astounds me, about some of the faithful is that they are willing to believe they lucked onto the One True Faith ^TM and everyone else wanders around believing stories. Me, I take a far more pragmatic approach. I'm an atheist, if I'm right I get to rot in the ground along side everyone else. If I'm wrong, I'm in for an interesting eternity. I may not be on the true path but mine makes sense.

And if my kid ever asks if there is a god, well I'm not going to let the kid off with an easy answer. I'll ask it what it thinks god is. Teach the kid to use its brain when confronted with the big questions.

[Japher]

Starchild

Yet, I believe just in case... as if there isn't a god, it's not like rotting in the ground is going to hurt any more

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark Think logically

"I was given a X education. It involved Y, ergo all X education involves Y" Demonstrate why this reasoning is fallacious.

I am. I'm not basing it just on my own personal experiences, but on logic and reason.

Any time you drag a child to a religious place of worship once a week, teach him and tell him to believe in it (over and over), that's brainwashing.

It's very simple. You don't see it as brainwashing, simply education, because you, too, have no doubt been brainwashed.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Starchild


What do you do when your little kid asks you if the Hindu gods are real? Or wonders about the ancient gods that people prayed to, told stories of, and died for?
.

If hes too little for subtlety, I tell her that theyre not real. Like I said, youve got to answer one way or the other. When shes older i will talk to her about the universal human for meaning, and how thats expressed in different cultures history. I will discuss why Judaism sees monotheism as uniquely true, and what that means to me. I will certainly not tell her that everyone needs to be Jewish - that is not part of Judaism - other peoples can (and are meant to) have different paths to G-d

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Asher

I am. I'm not basing it just on my own personal experiences, but on logic and reason.

Give it a rest. That's a very dubious inductive inference.

[Asher]

Starchild is right on w.r.t. religious people all thinking they have the correct religion.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
Give it a rest. That's a very dubious inductive inference.

s/dubious/obvious

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher


Any time you drag a child to a religious place of worship once a week, teach him and tell him to believe in it (over and over), that's brainwashing.

A. I should get a baby sitter when i go to shul?
B. I shouldnt teach my kid stuff I know? I teach her civil war history, dinosaurs, - why shouldnt i teach her about judaism? you may believe what i teach her is false - -you may believe the same about what i teach her about the civil war, or dinosaurs. I presume when you say that religious education is brainwashing you are saying more than that you believe religion to be false.
C. Tell him to believe in it. _ as i hope youve gathered, i have never told my child to believe it. Or not. Period.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Asher

s/dubious/obvious

Not really. I know and have taught many people who had a strict Catholic education and most aren't brainwashed or resolutely religious.

Especially the two I had some years back who would skip classes (not just mine) to engage in premarital sex (the other students gleefully told me where they were and what they were doing - I had a hard time keeping a straight face when they made some BS excuse the next week).

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher
Starchild is right on w.r.t. religious people all thinking they have the correct religion.

I dont know what the correct religion is. I dont know what the "correct" form of Judaism is, or if there is a correct form. I dont "know" if Judaism is "true" I dont know if all monotheisms are true in some way. I dont know if monotheism is superior to polytheism or atheism. I DO know that struggling with this is important to me. I also know that I want to do this struggle not alone, but with others. I also know that living the Jewish experience is part of my way of struggling with these questions, and that the many (not all) of the most interesting answers to me are ones formulated by thinkers immersed in the Jewish tradition. Ergo, it makes sense for me to go to shul where I can struggle alongside people with similar interests - and to tunes that have emotional weight for me, etc.

Perhaps all this makes me "irreligious" from your point of view. It certainly does to my ultraorthodox relatives.
Too bad.

[Asher]

No one said the brainwashing is always effective, especially in the teenage & college years.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Agathon
Especially the two I had some years back who would skip classes (...) to engage in premarital sex

Been there, done that.