pedophile Priest Shanked!!!

[Sava]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh


But how do you define a sin?

it's a massive gray area...

if there is a victim, there is a sin... it's that simple.

most are easy: murder, stealing...

others aren't... homosexuality, drug use, prostitution (none of which I consider sins)

I am not concrete in my belief of God or no God... but assuming there is one, I doubt judgement would be a situation where some angel just says, "you did this and this and you go to hell"... I envision it to be a long process consisting of a dialogue with God...

I don't think sins are just sins because God says so... even if God doesn't exist, sins still do. They are above him.

[Sava]

Nobody except for the most fundamentalist believes that God transcribed the bible to us. Most Christians believe the bible was produced by man under some degree of divine inspiration.

I have not seen any evidence suggesting God has interfered with human civilization. He gave us free will. He doesn't mess with free will. Either you believe this or you don't... it can't be both ways. Either man wrote the bible on his own... or God interfered with free will and did it himself. Which is it. This is a yes or no situation... either it's God's creation or not... none of this inspiration BS.

Again, not all Christians are hard-line Protestants...

and the very open nature and many interpretations of the religion discredits it...

[Az]

Old testament god quite often encouraged to kill in a genocidal matter entire populations. Old Testament god doesn't call home anymore.

[Ben Kenobi]

Protestants, accepting Jesus Christ as your saviour does indeed guarantee salvation and lack of penalty for sins, although I think some mainstream to liberal protestant denominations recognize the possibility of Mortal Sin.

It seems inappropriate to gage the priest by protestantism, since his authority would not be recognised. All we would say is that the man never truly believed in God, especially if he were baptised as an infant, and may not have known Christ.

However, we must remember that we are not called to judge other people, to determine whether they will go to heaven or hell. That's God's job. We just have to pick up the pieces afterwards.

I'm going to use my church as an example since that is the one that I know best. When a member starts sinning, and becomes a real problem for the congregation, they are expelled from the church for a period of time until they choose to repent.

Shi could not tell me right now, whether or not he knows that he is saved. Neither could the Catholic priest. Why should we presume to know better?

[Sava]

I'm going to use my church as an example since that is the one that I know best. When a member starts sinning, and becomes a real problem for the congregation, they are expelled from the church for a period of time until they choose to repent.

that's nice... isolate... wash your hands of the problem... REAL Christian of you guys...

[Elok]

Originally posted by Sava
I have not seen any evidence suggesting God has interfered with human civilization. He gave us free will. He doesn't mess with free will. Either you believe this or you don't... it can't be both ways. Either man wrote the bible on his own... or God interfered with free will and did it himself. Which is it. This is a yes or no situation... either it's God's creation or not... none of this inspiration BS.
and the very open nature and many interpretations of the religion discredits it...

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you insist on defining everything your way, on your terms, you're not going to find peace with god. To put it another way, the creator of heaven and earth doesn't take crap.
Most of what you and Spiffor have posted re: Christianity is vastly oversimplified too. If not all. E.G., the temporary excommunication of a sinner is partly for the sinner's own good and partly for that of the parish. It is intended as punishment, to teach them that they cannot pay lip service to god while living in the gutter, and to remind them not to take the church for granted; it's also intended to keep the sinner from sowing dissent or inspriring imitators until such time as he/she chooses to repent. In the Orthodox Church the excommunication is largely reserved for big stuff that hurts other members of the church as well as yourself, like divorce or murder. In no way is it "washing our hands of the problem." It was taken on the advice of one of Paul's epistles-I want to say Corinthians, but Obiwan could tell you better than I.
What kind of Orthodox church were you raised in, that you didn't know better than to think we all believe the same gibberish as the people in the Chick tracts?

[Sava]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you insist on defining everything your way, on your terms, you're not going to find peace with god.

What do you think religion is? It's just someone else defining things their way. Sorry... but Christianity is someone's definition of what God is... just as Islam, Judaism, etc, etc, etc..

To put it another way, the creator of heaven and earth doesn't take crap.

Have you met him?

And that is exactly what my point is. Not one human on this Earth that has ever lived knows what lies beyond death... not one human being knows if there is a God or higher power... and not one human being knows what he or she or whatever it wants.

And any human being who says they know God's will is full of ****.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
It even goes further and insists that we all deserve hell, because we are all corrupt and evil.

Sounds like a great religion.

[TCO]

Did he actually rape any children. I mean forcibly sodomize any who didn't want to?

[Elok]

Originally posted by Sava
What do you think religion is? It's just someone else defining things their way. Sorry... but Christianity is someone's definition of what God is... just as Islam, Judaism, etc, etc, etc..
And that is exactly what my point is. Not one human on this Earth that has ever lived knows what lies beyond death... not one human being knows if there is a God or higher power... and not one human being knows what he or she or whatever it wants.
And any human being who says they know God's will is full of ****.

The "you" there was singular. One of the many points on which our beliefs seem to differ is that I do not believe that all agreements reached by consensus are the detestable fruit of the mob mentality. The doctrines of the early church weren't determined by a shadowy cabal of men in a little candlelit room. The Ecumenical councils were HUGE. Just about every Bishop in christendom showed up for them, and nobody left until they agreed on something. They took months. A great deal of heated argument took place. A bunch of men with very strong beliefs argued, referring back to the source of those beliefs to back them up, and what they concluded was the truth came out. The reason we don't question those beliefs today is that we operate under the assumption that deep spiritual truths do not change with time. All the changes that have occurred over the past milennium or so are largely irrelevant to the formal doctrine of the Christian church, so aside from new issues raised by new technology we need only respect the judgment of men that came before. We see no reason to assume that our antecedents were liars.
Which is where we disagree. Why do you dismiss every idea you hear as the plot of goons with ulterior motives? I don't believe I've ever seen you actually *consider* an idea suggested by others. Why?

[Mordoch]

Originally posted by TCO
Did he actually rape any children. I mean forcibly sodomize any who didn't want to?

He definately did, I believe all these allegations involve unwanted sexual advances.

Since the mid-1990s, more than 130 people have come forward with horrific childhood tales about how former priest John J. Geoghan allegedly fondled or raped them during a three-decade spree through a half-dozen Greater Boston parishes.

Almost always, his victims were grammar school boys. One was just 4 years old...

According to McSorley, Geoghan, who knew the family from St. Andrew's, learned of his father's suicide and dropped by to offer condolences to his mother, who is schizophrenic. The priest offered to buy Patrick ice cream.

"I felt a little funny about it," McSorley recalled in an interview. "I was 12 years old and he was an old man."

Riding home after getting ice cream, McSorley says, Geoghan consoled him. But then he patted his upper leg and slid his hand up toward his crotch. "I froze up," McSorley said. "I didn't know what to think. Then he put his hand on my genitals and started masturbating me. I was petrified." McSorely added that Geoghan then began masturbating himself.

http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/geoghan/

[Kuciwalker]

TMI

[TCO]

I read the story. Didn't seem to say that he actually held someone down and penetrated him.

[Mordoch]

Originally posted by TCO
I read the story. Didn't seem to say that he actually held someone down and penetrated him.

Well according to this article

By his own admission, he twice raped a 10-year-old boy.

http://www.petehamill.com/nydnews31802.html

[Imran Siddiqui]

if there is a victim, there is a sin... it's that simple.

Is it a sin to call someone an idiot if they are one?