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**laurentius** · August 13, 2003, 15:31

My explanation to the high unemployment is that most of the unemployment is due to the so called "structural unemployment". There are of course other reasons too like the bad employment policy practised in finnish ecomomy. The short term profit expectations in companies, resulting in needless job cuts. The superideology of profitability...

**Kramerman** · August 13, 2003, 15:33

he must have spent a lot of time writing his posts and i htink hed appreciate feedback on his ideas, rather than being called a whiner because he sees where his country is failing and calling something to be done about it. I dont think anyone else here appreciates being called a whiner because they see problems in their country and are addressing them, because almost all of you, especially you left wing americans, do it all the time. and yall get pissed at the likes of slowwhand calling you whiney meatheads that are welcome to leave.

**Arrian** · August 13, 2003, 15:33

The superideology of profitability

?

**Joseph** · August 13, 2003, 15:34

It sucks.

**chequita guevara** · August 13, 2003, 15:34

Originally posted by Kramerman
this is exactly the attitude pekka is talking about, the, "oh, but look how much better we have it in africa"

This is the same arguement conversatives always throw at liberals and progressives when we complain about conditions in America. If it's BS for us, it's BS for you too.

And as I pointed out, Finland is far from being mediocre. In point of fact, made in Norway / Sweden / Finland / Denmark usually means you are getting a high quality product. Volovo / Saab / Nokia / Haagen-Daaz / Lurpak etc.

**Kramerman** · August 13, 2003, 15:35

laurentius

**chequita guevara** · August 13, 2003, 15:37

Originally posted by Kramerman
I dont think anyone else here appreciates being called a whiner because they see problems in their country and are addressing them,

Don't let the door hit you on the way to Cuba.

**Kramerman** · August 13, 2003, 15:38

This is the same arguement conversatives always throw at liberals and progressives when we complain about conditions in America. If it's BS for us, it's BS for you too.

im not conservative... perhaps thats why you put the

? I am not liberal either.... i want to be a progressive

**laurentius** · August 13, 2003, 15:38

Yes Arrian. The superideology of profitability. The universal will to make everything as profitable as possible. In private sector as well as in public sector.

**Pekka** · August 13, 2003, 15:39

People take my whining on too negative note.
Lots of arguments, excellent!

Azazel, I have repeatedly said, that I'm grateful to be born in here and have good things going on. What I'm saying is we have reached our maximum potential now, or very soon, and our problems will get bigger because of our system.

I have never said we needed to adopt American style. I have said, that it wouldn't prolly work here. I've said, we need to come up with a new modified system that fits us. We have reached our limits, there's not much more money to go around. We need to create more money, to go around.

I hardly consider myself right wing nut. In here, Finland, I might be considered right wing, but that's only when it comes to this. Don't mix my beliefs with kicking out immigrants and refugees, like most real right wing nuts are believing in. I don't have a problem with immigrants or refugees.

We didn't bring the world Linux. Linus Torvalds was a Finn, sure. He worked the OS in Uni here, sure. But it's hardly a Finnish thing. It's more like international project, that happened to have a Finn in lead. That's all there is to it. Sure, it contributes to the world, but it's because of the effort of international programming etc community.

As for me being a right wing nut, brainwashed.. well I don't know. You sound like the spokesperson for SDP. Now those folks sure are nuts. You know who I voted for in election? A liberal dude. That's right. So there's your right wing nuttiness. Though I voted for him only because I know him in IRL and I think he has some good thoughts, though I don't agree with everything.

That's typical SDP to give an image that everything is peachy. YES services makes the taxes high. But the services are also getting worse, and thats why I think what's the point anymore. It is too expensive to support itself, we need everyone working in able to make this system work to it's full potential, or else it's just one sorry ass thing that never worked but people had faith in.

We need more money to go around. How we do that? Well if I had the 100% working answer to this, I'd be pretty famous guy. But I haven't figured out, and it seems there's no one in this country that has figured it out, so I figure we need to change the system.

What we can do right now is cut off loads of folks and work dodgers off from getting money. We must help them, but not by giving free money away. I know there has been efforts to help folks, but it's not working. I know, I was out of job and didn't have a place to study for a while. And no, I was not eligible for welfare check.
I was forced to go to study something I really didn't want to. That cut me off from everything, because I didn't want to. And rightfully so, after that I even wouldn't deserve the support.

And what comes to third world countries, it's not an excuse for us to not make it. Even when people are doing so much worse in other places of this world, I don't see why we need to hold us back. We can still help them like we do. One thing doesn't make the other thing impossible.

**Kramerman** · August 13, 2003, 15:40

Originally posted by laurentius
Yes Arrian. The superideology of profitability. The universal will to make everything as profitable as possible. In private sector as well as in public sector.

i dont think that is true... in the private sector, yes, but the public sector too?

**mrmitchell** · August 13, 2003, 15:40

this is exactly the attitude pekka is talking about, the, "oh, but look how much better we have it in africa"

Indeed, and this is one of the most damaging mindsets a nation can have. If you don't have your self improvement first (okay, your dignity and respect first and that second) then you're never going to improve or you're just going to be an unsustainable charity.

Their unemployment numbers don't measure the same thing as our unemployment numbers.

I'm not an economics genius...would you mind telling me how their unemployment numbers aremeasured? (Vel, DanS, MtG...here's another chance to show off

)

**Pekka** · August 13, 2003, 15:43

laurentius, and I agree with you there. People losing jobs all the time because businesses trying to maximize profits. Businesses not raising the salaries of workers where they should be comparing how much the business is going forward and making profit. Instead of raising the salaries of workers, they cut their spots making more profit. Or invest in non succesful venues in other countries. They are not even raising it to the level how inflation and everything else is going, well they didn't in the mid 90s. And everything is more expensive, so people can afford even less. Like 'I remember when bus ride costed a dime'.. 'yeah well I still make the same salary'.

**Pekka** · August 13, 2003, 15:44

If no one ever wanted to do anything to raise the standars of the living, I guess we'd be still living in caves hunting bears. After all, that's good life for most if they don't ever want to go for something better.

**Kramerman** · August 13, 2003, 15:47

Originally posted by Kramerman

im not conservative... perhaps thats why you put the

? I am not liberal either.... i want to be a progressive

actually, i take this back, i think im just a hard-ass liberal

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