Protecting victims of false rape allegations

[Ben Kenobi]

If it was left up to coservatives, we would still be refering to the survivors of rape as ruined women.

Che:



If everyone were properly conservative, there would be no need for rape laws in the first place.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by yavoon

the majority of the feminist movement is concerned w/ empowerment. not relief of suffering. they're both good goals, but they are distinctly different.

Are you really that dumb? Or do you just hate women?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by obiwan18
Che:



If everyone were properly conservative, there would be no need for rape laws in the first place.

Which is why extremely conservative governments use rape as a punishment?

[yavoon]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Are you really that dumb? Or do you just hate women?

the feminist movement is not concerned w/ empowerment? if u wna just randomnly flame me that'll work great cuz then I can just stop responding.

[Ben Kenobi]

That might be true of the tiny minority of right-wing feminists who follow Adrea Dworkin and Katherine McKinnon, but they hardly have any representation in mainstream feminism, let alone the huge numbers of left-wing feminists. Those two are so conservative their ideas about sex are practically Victorian.

So the 'tiny minority' must always be wrong?

Do you even have a ****ing clue as to the verbal fecal matter that you are spewing?

Che, why don't you calm down before you embarrass yourself further?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by yavoon
they've been told they have a right to be scarred, hell they've been told they SHOULD be scarred for life.

Yes, they've been told this for thousands of years, except in those countries in which feminism has started telling women that they are survivors of rape, not victims.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Yes, they've been told this for thousands of years, except in those countries in which feminism has started telling women that they are survivors of rape, not victims.

I thought rape wasn't a crime against women in the old days. how can u have a victim w/o a crime?

[Kropotkin]

Originally posted by obiwan18
If everyone were properly conservative, there would be no need for rape laws in the first place.

A statement that means nothing. So if all were properly liberals, rapes would be commonplace? I don't think so as to rape someone isn't a very liberal thing to do.

You're mixing normative statements about the a conservative ideal and put it against the real world as an example of the opposite.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by yavoon
the feminist movement is not concerned w/ empowerment? if u wna just randomnly flame me that'll work great cuz then I can just stop responding.

I can't believe I have I have to lead you by the hand on this.

What does empowerment do? What does rape do?

Rape takes away your confidence in yourself, like all violent crimes. When you are attacked, you feel shame, that you did something to causes this, especially if you know the attacker. Depression is a very common side effect of being raped. Until very recently, people used to ask what she did to cause it, said it was her fault or she deserved it. In trials today, survivors are dragged through the mud and made out to look like sluts and are just being vindictive.

Empowerment gives you confidence in yourself. What is the purpose of empowerment, to take control of your life. Why do you need to be empowered, because you don't have power, or at least not an equal share.

It was the women's movement that has forced police to treat rape as a serious crime for all women, and not just middle-class white virgins of impeccable character. It was the women's movement who set up rape couseling, so women would understand it was not their fault and that they could survive rape. It was the women's movement who first referred to rape survivors as survivors rather than victims, and for the most part, they are still the only ones.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by yavoon
I thought rape wasn't a crime against women in the old days. how can u have a victim w/o a crime?

And you're trying to prove what by this statement? Murder has always been considered a crime, unless you murdered people who were unworthy of attention. So because Black people didn't get justice it didn't mean that they weren't murdered?

The fact that women were treated abominably doesn't mean that rape was legal. If you were a white man raping a Black women, people might cluck their tongues, but not because of the rape, but because it was interracial sex. Forget her trying to get justice. On the other hand, if a white woman claimed a Black man raped her, he'd be lucky to live through the night.

There were (and sadly still are) worthy victims and unworthy victims. Worthy victims were pitied, put on a pedistal, and told how sad it was their lives were ruined. Unworthy victims were told that it was their own fault, that they were sluts, that they brought dishonor on the family.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by obiwan18
So the 'tiny minority' must always be wrong?

Did I say they were wrong because they were a minority? No, I said because they are a tiny minority they aren't representitive of the movement.

Che, why don't you calm down before you embarrass yourself further?

As I said before, this crap makes my blood boil, especially when stated by someone who refers to himself as a socialist.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


I can't believe I have I have to lead you by the hand on this.

What does empowerment do? What does rape do?

Rape takes away your confidence in yourself, like all violent crimes. When you are attacked, you feel shame, that you did something to causes this, especially if you know the attacker. Depression is a very common side effect of being raped. Until very recently, people used to ask what she did to cause it, said it was her fault or she deserved it. In trials today, survivors are dragged through the mud and made out to look like sluts and are just being vindictive.

Empowerment gives you confidence in yourself. What is the purpose of empowerment, to take control of your life. Why do you need to be empowered, because you don't have power, or at least not an equal share.

It was the women's movement that has forced police to treat rape as a serious crime for all women, and not just middle-class white virgins of impeccable character. It was the women's movement who set up rape couseling, so women would understand it was not their fault and that they could survive rape. It was the women's movement who first referred to rape survivors as survivors rather than victims, and for the most part, they are still the only ones.

I don't understand how this contradicts me. I did say that the feminist movement is by in large concerned w/ empowerment. I think u r becoming overzealous in this argument and thinking that I am simply anti feminist.

for me to say "the feminist movement is concerned w/ empowerment." and for the response to that statement to be this flame. its like the flame was pre-written just waiting to be hurled on someone who disagreed w/ u.

[chequita guevara]

No, this is what you said.

Originally posted by yavoon well its not an either or thing. and thats partly the problem. the feminists feel the need to run politicaly rampant over the suffering of the women in order to grind laws past huge chauvinists.

. . .

the main contribution of feminism to rape is to magnify the victimization. The ends are two goals, get more women to come forward and to get stricter laws past. but to this end they build up the crime as much as humanly possible. which has the side effect of women actually are scarred for life. they've been told they have a right to be scarred, hell they've been told they SHOULD be scarred for life.

. . .

the majority of the feminist movement is concerned w/ empowerment. not relief of suffering. they're both good goals, but they are distinctly different.

You have consistently misrepresented feminism and written things which aren't merely wrong, but are, in fact, the opposite of history. At best they are completely ignorant. At worst they are lies.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
No, this is what you said.



You have consistently misrepresented feminism and written things which aren't merely wrong, but are, in fact, the opposite of history. At best they are completely ignorant. At worst they are lies.

arguing the conclusion isn't very interesting. what I said was true. feminists have championed a sense of extraordinary victimization in rape victims. I also think u r attributing anyone who cares about women to the "feminist movement." or any center that offers free counseling. This is much too broad a scope to take. I support free counseling and I am not feminist. infact as is in line w/ my first post that is what I MOST SUPPORT.

[reds4ever]

So, should innocent (ie until proven guily) men be named as rapists?

Should lairs who falsely accuse men of rape be entitled to anonimity (BAD sp!) or be prosecuted afer?