Basque independentists create a plan to destroy Spain and France

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by Fez
The PSOE is the closest there is.. and Spain doesn´t want them in power ever again.

Actually some people doubt if the PSOE exists because it follows a different policy at every place. That's why I said that "I doubt if there is a socialist party in Spain".

That would be great... this is kinda off topic, but did you support the war in Iraq? I did... most polls say 90% of my people didn´t, but when it came to the election those polls were wrong.

Another sample of propaganda. Polls said 90%. Newspapers said 100% and some even 150%, showing their maths knowledge. Looking at the media it was like absolutely everyone was against the Iraq war (only the Iraq war. They don't care about all the other wars around the world). I am sure that if we would had a thread about supporting the war in Spain the majority would have said that Spanish people were anti war, but then the elections come and the victory is for "the war party". What happened? Did all that "peace supporters" changed their mind. Of course not. It was just propaganda. A lie that becomes true because it is said many times. Exactly the same happens with the basque region.

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Of course, OliverFA completely omits how Franco terrorized the region out of its desire for autonomy. Fascism's first lessons in state terror began in the Basque region.

Do you want to speak about the Spanish Civil War? This is another common place for lies and propaganda.

First, Franco was not a fascist. He was a conservative dictator. In fact there are documents that prove that Hitler didn't like him and that he would have attacked Spain if he hadn't had more important problems. Of course he would have won without problems because Spain was devastated after the civil war.

Second, the "Republican" side was not Republican at all. They wanted to cancel the Republic and install a communist regime controlled by Moskow.

Third, The democracy in Spain arrived when Franco died and the regime itself did the change. The first president of the democracy was also the last president in the Franco's regime.

Fourth, even if what you said was true that doesn't change the fact that the majority of the Basques want to be Spanish, and that the ones that terrorize right now (and since before the Franco's regime ended) is the ETA. So the sons have to pay their father's fault?

[chequita guevara]

Nationalists can be fun. But often they're one track records. "My country is the greatest ever and never did anything wrong, ****ers!"



No one cares, and only Fez believes you.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Of course, OliverFA completely omits how Franco terrorized the region out of its desire for autonomy. Fascism's first lessons in state terror began in the Basque region.

You out of all people don´t have credibility to talk about Spain´s past.

[Wernazuma III]

I rarely agree with panag on politics, but really, Spain should hang those bastards on the very next tree. The basques have no reason whatsoever to claim independence, even less by means of terrorism.
Not only that it makes no sense in a Europe becoming every time more closely united, but because the Basques enjoy an autonomy any other minority can only dream of!
Corse and Breton people in France have it much worse, by French centralized policy and although there is some corse terrorism, it's far from being even comparable to ETA.
ETA are nothing but criminals, the worst and most senseless terrorist group I've ever heard about.

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Nationalists can be fun. But often they're one track records. "My country is the greatest ever and never did anything wrong, ****ers!"

I supose you are calling me Spanish nationalist? Well, sadly Spain did many things wrong. One of them for example not informing enough about the basque problem and leting all that misinformation and propaganda campaign go on.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Fez


You out of all people don´t have credibility to talk about Spain´s past.

More than you.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Nationalists can be fun. But often they're one track records. "My country is the greatest ever and never did anything wrong, ****ers!"



No one cares, and only Fez believes you.

Shut up.

My uncle was almost killed in an ETA bomb blast. And I personally would like to see all the ETA ****ers shot and fed to sharks.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


More than you.

I am from the country. And communism doesn´t have a place in my country.

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by Fez


I am from the country. And communism doesn´t have a place in my country.

Right. Communism doesn't even have a place in Russia nowadays. Which is very good for Russians!

Communist party is part of the Basque government by the way. it isn't surprising that the communists are suporting murderers and thier blackmail policies.

By the way, communists brought Spain to Civil War. At least we ended with the lesser evil. I'd rather not to think what would happen if the communists had won the war.

[Giancarlo]

My grandfather was in the Nationalist Army and almost killed by communists. That is why I have such resentment.

[OliverFA]

Here you can find information in English and other languages about the real situation in the Basque Country

¡Basta ya!

[Giancarlo]

Thanks for the link...

[notyoueither]

Oliver, is that the Basque parliament (term?) making those demands? Or is it a non-governmental organisation fancying itself to be the 'government' of the basques.

btw, you are correct. The sovereigntists lose a vote in Quebec and begin speaking of the next one while conceding defeat. There may be some hope though. It is reported that younger Francophones aren't very interested in the program for the most part.

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I dislike nationalists of most kinds, but I especially dislike nationalists who say to some smaller group, you have no right to your own identity and you are part of us whether you like it or not.

Every group has the right to self-determination. Whether or not the Basques leave or stay with Spain is up to the Basques, not the Spanish (unless the Spanish decide they don't wish to associate with the Basques). It is not the right of the United States to decide for Puerto Rico (though it alone has that power), it is not the right of the Spanish to hold the Basques, it is not the right of the Turks to keep the Kurds.

Yeah right. And Virginia's right to secede was respected, yes?

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Oliver, is that the Basque parliament (term?) making those demands? Or is it a non-governmental organisation fancying itself to be the 'government' of the basques.

Every region of Spain has its own government with a congress. It is like the middle institution, being the lower the municipalty and the higher Spain itself. The institution making those demands is the president of the basque region.

btw, you are correct. The sovereigntists lose a vote in Quebec and begin speaking of the next one while conceding defeat.

I wonder if they would agree to repoll again if they had won. Anyway, if I remember correctly, the vote in Quebec was very close, almost 50%-50% What would have happened to the half of the Quebec people if the independentists had won?

Yeah right. And Virginia's right to secede was respected, yes?

Completely I wonder if he would say the same if, let's say, California, decided to turn independent from the rest of the USA.