Basque independentists create a plan to destroy Spain and France

[OliverFA]

I have no English link to this (Spain news have not much impact outside our borders you know) but if someone wants to check it in Spanish here it is:

El borrador del plan Ibarreche confirma su proyecto secesionista como elemento de persuasión

[EDITED]Here you can find information in English and other languages about the real situation in the Basque Country

¡Basta ya!
[/EDITED]

And here the translation of the most important points:

- The basque autonomous government has created a draft the "Political Statute of Free Associated Comunity of Euskadi".

- This statute pretends to annul the present Guernica Statute. It also annuls several articles from the Spanish Constitution "by basque will" and contradicts what it is said in the European Constitution draft.

- The document says that "the basque people" have the right to split from the rest of Spain, and it considers that "the basque people" are the Basque autonomous region, the Navarra autonomous region and three French departments of Behenafarroa, Lapurdi and Zuberoa.

- The document gives to the basque parlament the esclusive right to decide which political parties are legal or illegal and negates any right for the Madrid institutions to say anything about this issue,

- It creates a "Tribunal of conflicts Euskadi-Spain" which has the right in exclusive to judge the basque people, instead of the National Court, the Supreme Court and the Consitutional court.

- It creates a "basque nationality" and a basque social security.

- And the most amazing thing: If the Spanish parlament doesn't aprove this in 5 months, they "reserve for themselves the right" to approve it. So the "negotiation" period called in the document is a negotiation in one sense. Either you agree with me or I will do it anyway.

[Panag]

hi ,

and just how are those two bit terrorists planning on the take over of france and spain , ......

with paratroops or icbm's , .....

hang all those terrorists on the highest trees you can find , .....

have a nice day

[OliverFA]

I think they are trying to do it by cultural conversion They are using Civ4 in which some parts of your country can invent their own culture and become indpendent.

And thanks for the advice!

[Panag]

Originally posted by OliverFA
I think they are trying to do it by cultural conversion They are using Civ4 in which some parts of your country can invent their own culture and become indpendent.

And thanks for the advice!

hi ,

they generate about one point zero one culture , ......


have a nice day

[CerberusIV]

Give them a devolved government. They will be so busy arguing over what to do with even a little power that nothing significant will happen.

[OliverFA]

In fact they do have a lot of power. Spain is one of the most decentralized estates in the world. Probably only after Switzerland.

They were given some competences and power as a cake to make them content, but they always want more. (And by the way they have governed terribly poorly because 300,000 basque people have emigrated to other parts of Spain in the last 20 years) For them anything less that total independence is too few.

[Firelad]

They are using Civ4 in which some parts of your country can invent their own culture and become indpendent.

Hmm. Invent their own culture. The oldest surviving people in Europe. Right.
What's the problem with independence for the Basques anyway? I mean, what's the big deal anyway?

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by OliverFA
And by the way they have governed terribly poorly because 300,000 basque people have emigrated to other parts of Spain in the last 20 years.

That is just the point. Carry on for another twenty years and there will be no-one left in the Basque region to argue about independence.

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by CerberusIV


That is just the point. Carry on for another twenty years and there will be no-one left in the Basque region to argue about independence.

True. It is called "ethnic cleaning" or something like this (I don't know the exact translation to English.

[DanielXY]

yep, let them be independend. end of story.

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by Firelad
Hmm. Invent their own culture. The oldest surviving people in Europe. Right.

Of course. Everyone knows that the basque people are older than anyone else in Europe. All of them are 2000 years old (but very well conserved )

Everyone knows that the "ikurriña" is not an invented flag. The story about that basque independentist getting the British flag and changing its colours is invented by Madrid

Everyone knows that the "typical basque restaurants" have existed forever. In fact the Chineese inspired in them to create their own variety of local restaurants...

What's the problem with independence for the Basques anyway? I mean, what's the big deal anyway?

For starting, the majority of basques themselve don't want the independence. So this independentist groups is imposing their criteria to all the others and arrognatly speaking in the name of everyone.

On the other hand which right do they have to destroy our country? They can decide about something that will affect the whole Spain and the Spanish cannot say nothing about it? That's a curious way of understanding democracy.

[Q Classic]

being a believer in primordialism, i don't think you'll be able to acheive peace so long as ethnic groups like the basque have a huge chip on their shoulder for feeling second class in other countried dominated by other ethnic groups.

let them have a small country. let them keep it. it might lower the incidence of terrorist acts.

[Proteus_MST]

Yes, but has their local Government the Right to Declare Independence of their Territory?

If yes let them declare Independence.
Or demand that there has to be a poll within the Basque Region about declaring independence and that it will only be ratified, if a majority of the Basques is pro Independence.

If you say that a majority of the Basques are against it there won´t be much danger that the Poll will be successful (of course there have to be observers which grant that there are no tries to manipulate the poll )

After all, what does Spain loose with the Basque Territory?
Are there many important Resources or large industrial Plants, which are important for Spain?

Even if they really get Independence, as other posters already mentioned, it sounds as if they might return to SPain after a few years, with their head bowed low.

And as France will never give them those Territorys they seem to claim out of french soil, they will have little to work with, to create a functioning state

[Ned]

Has the issue of independence ever been put to a vote?

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
it might lower the incidence of terrorist acts.

Which reason do you have to believe it? None of the MANY concessions given to them, which are not only but a group of all the basque people has lowered it.