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**OliverFA** · July 25, 2003, 20:16

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
And the Spanish government. The Death Squads are Spanish,

Death Squads? That's completely your invention. Are you speaking about the GAL? The invention of the socialist government? In that case you must know that they have been judged by the Spanish estate, which shows that Spanish estate dislike them. Have the independentists done that with their terrorists? Of course not! They support them.

and the repression during the 70s and 80s in Basque country was rather severe.

Again you speak without knowing. A lie told 100 times doesn't become true. Facts! Give me facts!

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
And since you have no historical perspective on the matter, the current Basque resistence began during Franco's last decade.

I said above that ETA started killing before Franco's regime ended. Will you please read the posts of the person you are answering to?

What else? Oh yes, many Basques have moved out of the region.

Again you speak like all these propagandists. You misunderstand the facts on purpose. Why would they leave the region in such great numbers when the economy isn't bad? Where are they going? And why they tell when they are asked that they left because they felt unsafe?

Well, again, look at Ireland, which has hundreds of thousands, if not millions of ex-pats living abroad, including in England. Must be a sign they want to be part of the mother country again.

Why the people that want to be part of the mother country have to leave their house?

Just because you move to find a job doesn't mean you support union.

When you move because you don't feel safe in your own land that means they are using authoritarian methods with you.

The truth is, as in almost all situations, most of the people just want peace and to be left alone.

Oh yes, and the Che Guevara was a pacifist

Are you speaking about the same country than me? I doubt it.

The ETA and the Spanish are both gangs of armed thugs who murder the innocent.

Again: more misinformation and propaganda. FACTS. Which Spanish murder innocent people? (apart from the Spanish that doesn't want to be Spanish of course!) Either you are really misinformed, or you are just misinterpreting and changing the truth on purpose. Just because you say that the Spanish estate kill innocents that doesn't make it become true. I said it before, I will repeat it. Inform better about WHAT you are speaking. And please... this speech of "oh the terrible and evil Spanish" is a bit outdated, several centuries outdated. So please change it.

**OliverFA** · July 25, 2003, 20:21

Originally posted by TCO
That site was useless. I want to know what the borders of Basque are. Is Andorra covered. Stuff like that.

No offense, but you really need to get informed about this. I hope this helps

404 Page Not Found

https://www.wlu.edu/~jbarnett/211/mapas.htm

This page could not be located.

Look for "autonomías".

And the basque region WAS part of the Roman empire. Spain comes from the latin word Hispania. Hispania was an administrative Roman unit, divided in three provinces: Tarraconensis (North East), Betica (South East) and Lusitania (West, the present Portugal with some other territories)

**Mr. President** · July 25, 2003, 20:30

Originally posted by Firelad

What's the problem with independence for the Basques anyway? I mean, what's the big deal anyway?

National dismemberment isn't a problem, eh?

What's the problem then with independence for Texas, Louisiana, Azatlan, Cascadia, and Pennsylvania?

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

The ETA and the Spanish are both gangs of armed thugs who murder the innocent.

Kurang ajar.

**Giancarlo** · July 25, 2003, 20:53

Chegitz, you fool, how could you say the Spanish are a gang of armed thugs? What kind of drugs are you on? A communist like you has no say in what happens in my country, but we have a right to crack down on illegal seperatism and terrorism.

**chequita guevara** · July 25, 2003, 20:55

From Amnesty International:
Spain: Only adequate safeguards will end torture, and claims of torture

From Human Rights Watch:
Spain: The Human Rights Impact of Counter-Terrorism Measures

Evil, evil Spain sounds about right.

**chequita guevara** · July 25, 2003, 20:59

Hell, AI pretty much spells out the total BS that are Oliver's claims.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-esp/index

**notyoueither** · July 25, 2003, 21:09

"Amnesty International does not believe that torture is systematic in Spain, but the Government must resist the temptation of regarding all torture allegations as part of some ETA-inspired strategy".

This shows what, Che?

**Odin** · July 25, 2003, 21:11

Fez, quit your fascist ranting. Maybe if your beloved Franco wouldn't of brutally oppressed the Basques Spain wouldn't have all tese terrorists. Swallow your pride and give them independance. They are the desendants of the first Europeans, 40,000 years ago and have a unique culture; they deserve thier own country. they would be doing a lot better without Madrid breathing down thier thrown. YOU Spaniards are to blame by radicalizing them, now you are paying the price.

GO BASQUES!!!

**Giancarlo** · July 25, 2003, 21:22

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
From Amnesty International:
Spain: Only adequate safeguards will end torture, and claims of torture

From Human Rights Watch:
Spain: The Human Rights Impact of Counter-Terrorism Measures

Evil, evil Spain sounds about right.

We do what we must.

**Giancarlo** · July 25, 2003, 21:23

Originally posted by Odin
Fez, quit your fascist ranting. Maybe if your beloved Franco wouldn't of brutally oppressed the Basques Spain wouldn't have all tese terrorists. Swallow your pride and give them independance. They are the desendants of the first Europeans, 40,000 years ago and have a unique culture; they deserve thier own country. they would be doing a lot better without Madrid breathing down thier thrown. YOU Spaniards are to blame by radicalizing them, now you are paying the price.

GO BASQUES!!!

Spain isn't your country you pathetic communist. This isn't your country. They want to be apart of our country you arrogant snob as we brought them economic prosperity. They are not going to get independence as they don't want it.

Next time you go speaking up and supporting terrorists, you better watch who the **** you are speaking to. My uncle was almost killed by one of these terrorist bomb plots. Now take your abhorrent arrogance and leave this thread.

**Drake Tungsten** · July 25, 2003, 21:35

For GP

Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9479/basque.html

Latest news coverage, email, free stock quotes, live scores and video are just the beginning. Discover more every day at Yahoo!

**Odin** · July 25, 2003, 21:36

Originally posted by Fez
Spain isn't your country you pathetic communist. This isn't your country. They want to be apart of our country you arrogant snob as we brought them economic prosperity. They are not going to get independence as they don't want it.

Next time you go speaking up and supporting terrorists, you better watch who the **** you are speaking to. My uncle was almost killed by one of these terrorist bomb plots. Now take your abhorrent arrogance and leave this thread.

YOU shouldn't be in this thread because the attack on your uncle makes you irrational. This sh!t is your idol Franco's fault, the basques DON'T TRUST YOU GUYS, DUH!

You sound just like ignorant americans going "why do they hate us" after 9/11.

I bet many are afraid of voting for independance because they are afraid of being shot by goon squads like during Franco's reigime, DUH!

So there, you pathetic fascist.

**Giancarlo** · July 25, 2003, 21:38

Originally posted by Odin

YOU shouldn't be in this thread because the attack on your uncle makes you irrational. This sh!t is your idol Franco's fault, the basques DON'T TRUST YOU GUYS, DUH!

You sound just like ignorant americans going "why do they hate us" after 9/11.

I bet many are afraid of voting for independance because they are afraid of being shot by goon squads like during Franco's reigime, DUH!

You are an *******. Plain and simple. Stay the hell out of my country. You have no right to mess things up... wait... you are 14 years old... that is right... finish up 9th grade before we can talk.

I am not saying "Why do they hate us"... in fact the Basque people want to stay with Spain. Did you know that 500,000 people in the Basque region protested against Basque seperatists?

**Odin** · July 25, 2003, 21:48

Originally posted by Fez

You are an *******. Plain and simple. Stay the hell out of my country. You have no right to mess things up... wait... you are 14 years old... that is right... finish up 9th grade before we can talk.

I am not saying "Why do they hate us"... in fact the Basque people want to stay with Spain. Did you know that 500,000 people in the Basque region protested against Basque seperatists?

I'm 17 you moron.

Get out of your narrow-mindedness.

Your "evidence" has little credibillity, I am not convinced. TRY AGAIN!

**notyoueither** · July 25, 2003, 21:55

Re: For GP

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9479/basque.html

Interesting. There is only one area of the 11 listed where a majority of the people speak Basque, or almost a majority.

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Basque independentists create a plan to destroy Spain and France

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