Apolyton Sports Bar

[reismark]

Imran, the overall rankings don't bear that out. If you take a look at the individual game statistics, it becomes clear that Tampa's offense was most effective when it had a working running game... because Jon Gruden's offense is prevalent largely on getting good matchups with three-receiver sets (and you need a working running game for those to work right).

[BustaMike]

Parker is younger... IMO, is better

Get off the crack Sava! No one who's ever watched a basketball game would say Parker is better than Jason Kidd.

Malone going to LA - don't care... he's old.
Payton going to LA - that makes them mean now, Payton is great. The team still relies on Shaq though, if Shaq is hurt or lazy, then LA does nothing.

It's a shame Mourning signed with NJ. I was hoping he would go to Dallas. Speaking of Dallas, have they lost their minds. I heard they're trying to sign Robert Horry. Robert Horry is great for 5-10 minutes a game on a team with a DOMINANT CENTER like Olajuwan or Shaq, something Dallas definately doesn't have. I can remember when Horry was with the Suns and he SUCKED. It was horrible.

Oh, and to whoever said NJ was a legit contender with Kidd and Mourning - Yeah right It's a free ride to a defeat in the finals for a 3rd straight year... that's all. The Western Conference is too strong.

[Imran Siddiqui]

it becomes clear that Tampa's offense was most effective when it had a working running game

You mean like every single successful team in the entire league? Even the most 'pass-first' teams had a working running game. It's needed to keep teams honest.

For example, Oakland... which you'll agree was pass first. They were 18th in rushing yards and 13th in YPA. That's not a bad running game at all (in fact those numbers are better than Tampa's).

And it works the other way too. Even the best rush-first teams need a working passing game in order to win.

If you take a look at the individual game statistics, it becomes clear that Tampa's offense was most effective when it had a working running game... because Jon Gruden's offense is prevalent largely on getting good matchups with three-receiver sets

Without a great passing game it doesn't work though. Look at Oakland when Gruden was there. There were games, like they had last year, where Gannon threw 50 times in the game and they won. Gruden's offense seems to be pass... with some runnning in there just to keep 'em honest.

You can tell the breakup of an offense by the amount of attempts, comparatively.


Tampa Attempts Ranking:

Passing - 11th
Rushing - 24th


The numbers show that the Bucs were pass first and then rush to prevent nickel packages.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

it becomes clear that Tampa's offense was most effective when it had a working running game

You mean like every single successful team in the entire league? Even the most 'pass-first' teams had a working running game. It's needed to keep teams honest.

For example, Oakland... which you'll agree was pass first. They were 18th in rushing yards and 13th in YPA. That's not a bad running game at all (in fact those numbers are better than Tampa's).

And it works the other way too. Even the best rush-first teams need a working passing game in order to win.

If you take a look at the individual game statistics, it becomes clear that Tampa's offense was most effective when it had a working running game... because Jon Gruden's offense is prevalent largely on getting good matchups with three-receiver sets

Without a great passing game it doesn't work though. Look at Oakland when Gruden was there. There were games, like they had last year, where Gannon threw 50 times in the game and they won. Gruden's offense seems to be pass... with some runnning in there just to keep 'em honest.

You can tell the breakup of an offense by the amount of attempts, comparatively.


Tampa Attempts Ranking:

Passing - 11th
Rushing - 24th


The numbers show that the Bucs were pass first and then rush to prevent nickel packages.

Attempts Ranking doesn't tell the whole story, some teams are more inclined to pass than run.

With the rankings Tampa could have still averaged a 50/50 split in run/pass attempts.

ACK!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ok, numbers.

TAMPA:

Rush Attempts: 414
Pass Attempts: 567

Total Attempts: 981

Pass %: 57.798
Russ %: 42.202

(by comparision Oakland was ~59% pass)

About a 58-42 breakdown, pass to run. That's more indictative of a passing first team.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Ok, numbers.

TAMPA:

Rush Attempts: 414
Pass Attempts: 567

Total Attempts: 981

Pass %: 57.798
Russ %: 42.202

(by comparision Oakland was ~59% pass)

About a 58-42 breakdown, pass to run. That's more indictative of a passing first team.

Yes, much more indicitave than league rank is.

ACK!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Oh, furthermore... the main difference between 2001 and 2002 Tampa Offense is the amount of passing TDs.

In fact, passing TDs came at the expense of rushing TDs. In 2001, Tampa was 2nd in rushing TDs, in 2002 they were 31st. By contrast passing TDs rose from 29th to 14th.

I would say that if Brad Johnson had the same season he had in 2001 (only 13 TDs and 11 Ints), Tampa wouldn't have had as good a season.


And, of course, the D was much better than they were in 2001.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yes, much more indicitave than league rank is.

But league rank is important in finding out the state of the league. In a rush-first era (like the 70s), a 60-40 pass-rush split is AMAZING... in a pass-first era (more like the 80s) it is less so.

Right now I'd say it is basically neutral in pass v. rush. You have plenty of rush-first teams (Miami, San Diego) and plenty of pass-first teams (Oakland, Buffalo).

[Drake Tungsten]

You still haven't shown why Trent Dilfer shouldn't be considered a horrible quarterback.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Because he isn't.

Look at Baltimore without him and with him. A .500 team wins 11 straight and ends up winning the SuperBowl. Yeah, the Defense was awesome, but why were they .500 then before Dilfer started? And then look what happened the year after. Grbac started, and the Ravens fell badly.

The guy is a solid, dependable QB once you put decent players around him.

Give him the OLine and the rushing that Fielder has had, and Dilfer would have done just as well, and probably better.

[Drake Tungsten]

Look at Baltimore without him and with him. A .500 team wins 11 straight and ends up winning the SuperBowl.

I'm sure Jamal Lewis' great rookie season had nothing to do with the improved Ravens' offense.

And then look what happened the year after. Grbac started, and the Ravens fell badly.

I'm sure Jamal Lewis' season-ending injury had nothing to do with the Ravens' offensive problems.

The guy is a solid, dependable QB once you put decent players around him.

He sucks. He can only win when you put a back behind him that can carry an offense despite Dilfer's lack of talent.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm sure Jamal Lewis' great rookie season had nothing to do with the improved Ravens' offense.

Lewis had a good initial 5-6 games as well.

I'm sure Jamal Lewis' season-ending injury had nothing to do with the Ravens' offensive problems.

A QB should be better than Grbac was that year... it was just pitiful.

He can only win when you put a back behind him that can carry an offense despite Dilfer's lack of talent.

You mean like Fiedler?

[Drake Tungsten]

You mean like Fiedler?

I never said Fiedler was good; I personally think he is the Dolphins' weak point and they need to replace him. I did say, however, that he is better than Trent Dilfer and I stand by that comment. It's not hard to be better than one of the worst QBs in the league.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well I'll argue the contrary. Dilfer is better than Fiedler and I don't know if I'd rather have him or Griese at this point .

[cinch]

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De Vries departs Avs for Rangers


WebPosted Mon Jul 14 19:49:55 2003
CBC SPORTS ONLINE - Defenceman Greg de Vries is Broadway-bound.

De Vries, a 30-year-old unrestricted free agent, signed Monday with the New York Rangers, concluding his five-year tenure with the Colorado Avalanche.

"I really enjoyed my time in Colorado," de Vries said. "Maybe I thought it would be time to get out on my own and try to take a little more pressure on myself."

De Vries inked a four-year contract worth $13 million US with the Rangers.

He pocketed $1.375 million US this past season.

"Greg de Vries has developed into a solid, steady, two-way defenceman and we are sure that his addition will help strengthen our defence significantly," Rangers general manager and head coach Glen Sather said.

De Vries will make $4.2 million US this coming season, $3.1 million US in 2004-05, $3 million US in 2005-06 and $2.7 million US in 2006-07.

And Sather, the ex-Edmonton Oilers GM who signed de Vries to his first NHL pact nine years ago, feels he's worth every penny.

"He's a strong skater and he's a strong character," Sather said. "He's a guy that's continually got better.

"He can play tough and he can play smart. He just filled in all the little niches we needed."

"He was the ideal guy for the situation we have," Sather continued. "He fit into our budget.

"He was the type of person that I was looking for."

De Vries registered career highs with 26 assists and 32 points in 82 games for Colorado last season.

"He will be a great asset to our hockey club," Sather said. "We need seven top defencemen in this game.

"What has happened, with Greg being there, it just eliminates one spot we're trying to fill."

De Vries has 30 goals and 99 points with 459 penalty minutes in 500 games since entering the NHL as an undrafted free agent on Mar. 20, 1994.

The native of Sundridge, Ont., has played for the Oilers, Nashville Predators and Avalanche during his nine-year NHL career.

De Vries played 115 games for Edmonton before being traded along with Drake Berehowsky and Eric Fichaud to Nashville for Jim Dowd and Mikhail Shtalenkov on Oct. 1, 1998.

After De Vries went pointless in six games, the Predators shipped him to Colorado for a second-round draft pick that October 24.

He won a Stanley Cup with the Avalanche in 2001.


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Well, his career is over.