SCOTUS Upholds UMs AA

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Dissident
I must take exception again to the word cracker.

can't people post without using such derogatory comments?

Clarification: "your cracker ass" was not intended to refer to David Floyd (I have no idea if he is a cracker or not). Just a general exhortation to crackers in general.

Offended? Guess you don't own any Uncle Cracker CDs.

[The Templar]

Double Post

[Sikander]

Originally posted by GePap

Well, since people are not serious about fixing the root problem (greater poverty rates among minorities and worse schools in the primary and secondary levels), half solutions like AA are what's left. I can;t feel sorry for a society that will not address the issue and then gripes at the half-assed solution is decides to use.

Are these really the root problems? Simply put, economic outcomes are different and there is no underlying reason for that fact that may also play a part in educational outcomes? I beg to differ. Culture plays a huge part in this. Some people in this country are downright hostile to education, do you think they'd like it better of we gave them money they can't earn because they don't have any marketable skills?

Other people in this country don't care all that much about education. Their value system is much more concerned with the family, a focus btw which gives them much lower rates of certain mental illnesses. Is an equal economic outcome going to change these people's values systems. I doubt it.

I do agree with the sentiment that we need to re-focus our energies on K-12 education, but this idea has numerous good reasons for being implemented. Alone it is not going to have much of an impact on cultures that are hostile or ambivalent toward education.

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by The Templar
And what the hell is "merit" anyway? A score on a single standardized test? You spend years preparing for higher/professional education and it all comes down to an SAT 2 or LSAT score? Oh yeah, that's a real measure of merit! Grades? Aside from the fact no institution ever really trusts another institutions grades (due to rampant inflation) most grades are inherently subjective. Even math and science (if you are giving partial credit on problems or asking theoretical questions) admit a strong subjective factor. So where is the merit? Come on all you crackers crying about merit, give it a definition!

the worst thing is, i suspect you're white :/

anyway, i think most people would agree that the 'merit' you so casually dismiss has a lot more merit than the colour of one's skin.

sikander hit the nail on the head btw.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by C0ckney


the worst thing is, i suspect you're white :/

Never made any secret of that fact. What, white people can't criticize other white people or recognize white privilege?

anyway, i think most people would agree that the 'merit' you so casually dismiss has a lot more merit than the colour of one's skin.

sikander hit the nail on the head btw.

Not my point. My point is that merit as it is measured is fairly subjective (grades) or utterly pointless (standardized test scores). 'Merit' as it is typically defined, despite the dress up game right wingers play by using numbers, is not all its cracked up to be. SO don't scream about merit as though diversity goals are some how wrongfully intruding on something sacrosanct.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by The Templar

Race is very much an issue in the US - even if it isn't to you. The law has historically disadvantaged several minorites for hundreds of years. Now they get a slight advantage. Boo hoo! If your cracker ass can't overcome that slight advantage after benefiting from years of white privilege, you don't belong in a top school.

Please don't misabuse the term cracker by using it as a cheap racial epithet. The word has several useful meanings, none of which are well-served by being associated with the sort of scum who would use this word as an epithet.

White Privilege. It's good to see you've been paying attention in all those racist indoctrination classes at the Uni. With any luck you should be completely incapable of contributing to the common weal by the time you graduate, and will spend your time instead whipping up controversies along racial, cultural, class and gender lines for fun and profit.

It's amazing that with all those centuries of White Privilege that my grandmother had to quit school in the 8th grade in order to pick cotton for food. If only the authorities in Oklahoma were more efficient in their stealing of hundreds of billions of dollars worth of black labor, perhaps my grandmother could have been the first in the family to go to college.

Focus on race is counterproductive in many ways. It ignores the real issue in the vast majority of cases, culture. It gives aid and comfort to real racists by validating their viewpoint that "race is everything." It makes attempts to rectify past abuses or to give those who have started in difficult circumstances a leg up much more difficult by bringing in a completely seperate issue, race, which is loaded with political and emotional meanings that often have very little to do with one another or the problem at hand.

[C0ckney]

Never made any secret of that fact. What, white people can't criticize other white people or recognize white privilege?

it wasn't so much what you said but the way in which you said it. if i'd written 'both my contract law class and public law class at law school were very much enriched by having hardly any ******s, pakis, chincs or other assorted wogs and darkies in them...a class filled with middle class whites was much better' what do you think the reaction would have been?

Not my point. My point is that merit as it is measured is fairly subjective (grades) or utterly pointless (standardized test scores). 'Merit' as it is typically defined, despite the dress up game right wingers play by using numbers, is not all its cracked up to be. SO don't scream about merit as though diversity goals are some how wrongfully intruding on something sacrosanct.

well if that is the case then how else are you supposed to measure academic performance, which after all, should be the primary consideration when deciding who gets in and who doesn't.

i do see 'diversity goals' as something wrongfully intruding on something sacrosanct, that is, fairness and equal opportunity. i still fail to see how you tackle 'racism' by giving advantages to one race over another.

[Jac de Molay]

Originally posted by The Templar
'Merit' as it is typically defined, despite the dress up game right wingers play by using numbers, is not all its cracked up to be. SO don't scream about merit as though diversity goals are some how wrongfully intruding on something sacrosanct.

But in the case of the Undergrad's admission policy, the amount of points given to underrepresented races absolutely eclipsed the points given for such things as a perfect SAT, which got only 12 points vs 20 for underrep. minority. , and blew away the points given for national leadership and personal achievements. This is kind of blurry, but it gives you an idea.

http://www.cir-usa.org/Images/mich_index.gif

That's a pretty substantial bump to give to someone on the basis of race alone.

[Dis]

did you ever think some people don't like to be called crackers templar? You con't cosider that a racist derogatory word? This just shows it's okay to bash white people. If I said a derogatory word about a minoritie I would be banned.

and btw I don't really support affirmitive action. My pathetic trolls just couldn't hold up to public scrutiny . I just say that to appear more caring. People have called me uncaring, and I truelly do care about the welfare of minorities.

But as you can see, it can be too difficult to argue in favour of affirmitive action. Sandra O' Connor mentioned that in 25 years it won't be necessary. I'm inclined to agree with her.

and to tell the truth. I don't like saying I'm against affirmitive action, because I'm getting tired of being called a racist.

But I was listening to this rap song, and there seems to be a lot of hated coming from black people about getting rid of affirmitive action and welfare. Perhaps we should try to understand their plight.

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't like saying I'm against affirmitive action, because I'm getting tired of being called a racist.

Pre-empt the attack by telling people why you are against. Black people should not need a 'quota' in order to succeed. The longer we have a quota, the less black people are going to improve in order to meet the requiremenets of the best universities.

AA policies themselves are inherently racist because they assume that blacks need points in order to succeed, and they discriminate on the basis of race.

Yes there are problems with inclusion, but is the solution AA? AA will only perpetuate the idea that a black man can't quite hold a candle to a white man.

[Dis]

but black people support affirmitive action.

Shouldn't we believe them when they say racism is still going on, and they need help getting into college?

[Ben Kenobi]

So give them some help, tutoring etc.

Keep the bar at the same level, but teach them the proper techniques.

[Ted Striker]

Cut it out with abbreviations d1ckhead!!!!

[Caligastia]

I propose a change to the term 'wigger'. From now on they will be called 'cracker blacks'.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Jac de Molay


But in the case of the Undergrad's admission policy, the amount of points given to underrepresented races absolutely eclipsed the points given for such things as a perfect SAT, which got only 12 points vs 20 for underrep. minority. , and blew away the points given for national leadership and personal achievements. This is kind of blurry, but it gives you an idea.

http://www.cir-usa.org/Images/mich_index.gif

That's a pretty substantial bump to give to someone on the basis of race alone.

Jac, please refer back to my post on page two regarding this very issue...