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SCOTUS Upholds UMs AA

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  • #46
    Skimming through the opinions, I see some interesting things.

    1st, the main reason why O'Conner backs the law school policy, but NOT the undergrad's policy is because of 'individualized review of applicants'. Under the law school's application policy, every applicant is reviewed individually and race might be a boost to his application. Diversity qualifications are considered on a case-by-case basis. In the undergrad case, it is simply 20 points for being an underrepresented minority. There is little, if any, individualized review of applicants under this system. Diversity qualifications are applied automatically to everyone that falls under the catagory in undergrad.

    Therefore the undergrad's policy is NOT narrowly tailored to the compelling governmental interest in diversity (Grutter, ie the law school case, held that diversity is a compelling interest), while the law school's is (because it is individualized and may not always apply).

    Another consideration (and one that sways Rehnquist as well) is that while race counts for 20 points, other 'diversity' classifications such as leadership or art talent, etc. only can account for, at most, 5 points. So race counts FOUR times more than the maximum non-minority talented individual can recieve as a boost (even if he is the next Beethoven or Monet).
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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    • #47
      I can't see how government has any compelling interest in racial diversity - I don't, and neither does anyone I know. Race, to me, is a total non-issue, and it should be the same everywhere else.


      I agree with David Floyd (sort of).
      KH FOR OWNER!
      ASHER FOR CEO!!
      GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
        Ah, che, only reporting one side of the stories until you get the fact... why am I not surprised .
        Oh bite me, New Jersey boy. I ran with the first article of the morning. As soon as I saw a more complete arcticle I ran with it.
        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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        • #49
          Touchy, touchy .
          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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          • #50
            no wonder I didn't see this thread. I scanned the first page.

            too many abbreviations caused me to miss it.

            Well you can see my opinion in the other thread. I support affirmitive action as long as there still continues to be discrimination against black people.

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            • #51
              Just another case of the government suppresing the poor black man... I guess the Supreme Court sees things the way I do; minorities just don't have the necessary skills to compete on the same level as whitey...

              This was the dumbest, most vague and ambiguous decission I have ever seen farted out of those old, job secured, pig farmers... blah!
              Monkey!!!

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              • #52
                Maybe I'm too close to the situation here, but everyone I've spoken to here in A2 is very surprised by the decision; we all pretty much expected the opposite, with the Law School being struck down, but LSA being upheld. The Law School talks about a "critical mass", which is honestly a code for a quota. But the undergraduate case didn't have that at all... very strange.


                And for the umpteenth time, the undergraduate process DOES take into consideration class! No poor white kids were being left behind by U-M admissions. They got 20 points too. It is also highly misleading to compare the 20 points to the "12 points students get for a perfect SAT." The SAT is only one component of the academic factors that the U. takes into consideration; academics total well over 100 points in the admissions process.
                "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
                "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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                • #53
                  I have been told that I should know affirmitive action is wrong. In theory it is.

                  It has nothing to do with them lacking the skills to compete with whitey.

                  It has to do with discrimination.

                  A few months ago I refused to believe there was any widespread discrimination against black people.

                  But I've seen and heard some **** to make me reverse that stand. Discrimination is still a part of everyday american society.

                  I have also been asked why I only support AA for blacks. Well I support AA for hispanics and Native americans as well, though discrimination isn't as bad in those cases.

                  If someone can make the case there is no discrimination against black people, then I will come out against AA. Until then, it doesn't bother me.

                  Here's your homework for the day. go home, and just try, no really try to imagine yourself as a poor black person. Take a real close look at their lives.

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                  • #54
                    The fact that discrimination does exist in the world doesn't necessitate a system that works against those that have nothing to do with it.

                    Acknowledging racism still exists in the world by implementing a system thats racist??.....
                    "Perhaps a new spirit is rising among us. If it is, let us trace its movements and pray that our own inner being may be sensitive to its guidance, for we are deeply in need of a new way beyond the darkness that seems so close around us." --MLK Jr.

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                    • #55
                      yeah I know it sounds ****ed up.

                      But black people want affirmitive action, I think we should give them what they want.

                      They've suffered enough throughout history.

                      They should also get reparations.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by David Floyd
                        This is silly. I can't see how government has any compelling interest in racial diversity - I don't, and neither does anyone I know. Race, to me, is a total non-issue, and it should be the same everywhere else.
                        Race is very much an issue in the US - even if it isn't to you. The law has historically disadvantaged several minorites for hundreds of years. Now they get a slight advantage. Boo hoo! If your cracker ass can't overcome that slight advantage after benefiting from years of white privilege, you don't belong in a top school.

                        Moreover, because race is an issue in general - especially for every minority who gets questioned by a cop for no discernable reason other than they "match a description". The social construction of race leads to viewpoint diversity in a serious way. Both my property class and criminal law class at law school were very much enriched by a strong minority presence - black, hipanic, and asian. A class filled with prep school richboy crackers or middleclass suburban whiteboys would not have been as interesting.

                        And what the hell is "merit" anyway? A score on a single standardized test? You spend years preparing for higher/professional education and it all comes down to an SAT 2 or LSAT score? Oh yeah, that's a real measure of merit! Grades? Aside from the fact no institution ever really trusts another institutions grades (due to rampant inflation) most grades are inherently subjective. Even math and science (if you are giving partial credit on problems or asking theoretical questions) admit a strong subjective factor. So where is the merit? Come on all you crackers crying about merit, give it a definition!
                        - "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
                        - I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
                        - "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - Ming

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                        • #57
                          I must take exception again to the word cracker.

                          can't people post without using such derogatory comments?

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                          • #58
                            This is going to get interesting if O'Connor retires.
                            I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                            For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Dissident
                              can't people post without using such derogatory comments?
                              Some simple (read: stupid) people like to assume that AA opponents are racist.
                              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Dissident
                                yeah I know it sounds ****ed up.

                                But black people want affirmitive action, I think we should give them what they want.

                                They've suffered enough throughout history.

                                They should also get reparations.
                                You know, I was actually thinking about your previous post until I saw this one. Talk about blowing your whole argument!
                                "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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