Suicide Bombing in Jerusalem, 15+ Dead

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
go back to your diamonds and the gold that you robbed from other people by sneaking them on loan deals, Jew

That's good for one week. Damn, Ming let you slack off, though.

Lucky for you he checks his poly email more often than I check mine.

[D' Artagnan]

Originally posted by Agathon


Eh?

I was talkin about the ppl who cmitted these murders relax

[Panag]

Originally posted by Agathon


At least somebody gets it.

To the Israelis here: sure you have an interest in what's going on, but you can't expect everyone to agree with you all the time.

If you can't see that the Palestinians have been hard done by, both by Israel and by the World Community, then I despair for you. These people are living under a form of apartheid. It's a bit unfair to expect them to play nice when they don't get any joy from anyone and the supposed "impartial" negotiator just isn't. They have no vote or civil rights - do you expect them to just lie down and take it.

Israel is going to have to give up a lot to make things better - and it should, by rights, give up a lot more. Under the United Nations declaration of human rights everyone has a right to return to his or her country. This goes for the Palestinian refugees no less than anyone else. The only reason Israel has for stopping them returning to their own country is that Arabs would wield a great deal more electoral power in Israel than they currently do. Most civilised countries do not prevent immigration on basis of race and to run a country based on purity of race is anathema to the most basic notions of human rights.

hi ,

wake up , we dont stop them , but we stop people who have nothing to do here , ......

you can expect from someone who goes to iraq in 1940 and maries there to come back , even if he is allowed then still his wife's uncle should not be let in , ... those are the rules of immigration , and they tend to be the same in any other country , ...

as long as the jews who had to flee the arab world are not allowed to go back , ....

but that is not the whole point , we do allow people to return , we just do allow them to return with family in the 20th degree , .... the american INS does not allow that neither , .... we do allow that if there is a humanitarian need , for example if no-one else is alive in between the person and the far away relative , ....

you have posted in the past the same , yet you dont listen or answer agathon when it come to Israel , ....

ones again people should know what the thruth is , not some lies , ....

and as to the people who have doubts , the idf website and glz are far better news and events fact listing sites then most mayor worldwide newschannels , ....

and we say the thruth , if we make a mistake , we say so , in public , ..... that can not be said about many of todays leading newspapers in the world , ....

and todays attack in Gaza had nothing to do with the bus , just a small coincidence , ...

have a nice day

[Ming]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
That's good for one week. Damn, Ming let you slack off, though.

Not too slack... I already nailed him for a week. It will get lifted if he PUBLICLY APOLOGIZES in this thread.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by D' Artagnan

I was talkin about the ppl who cmitted these murders relax

I was talking about the whole lot of them (IDF included). Perhaps the IDF should be renamed the PWF (Palestinian Whacking Forces) since that's what they spend most of their time doing.

Don't worry - I am perfectly relaxed. I just don't see any point in taking sides here. Both sides are wrong to do what they are doing, but the Israelis hold most of the cards. Hence, they should take the preponderance of the blame.

How desperate do you have to be to start sending suicide bombers out? Pretty desperate I imagine.

[Imran Siddiqui]

If Israel didn't go after the Hamas leader, you think they wouldn't attack Israel?

But you are giving them a justification to do so. More people are going to say, yeah, the Israelis are trying to kill us, so why are we just sitting around doing nothing... and more people will back Hamas. It's a self-destructive policy that you will NEVER win!

[Edan]

Originally posted by Agathon

How desperate do you have to be to start sending suicide bombers out? Pretty desperate I imagine.

Yeah, I'll bet Bin Laden was desperate...

[Edan]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

But you are giving them a justification to do so. More people are going to say, yeah, the Israelis are trying to kill us, so why are we just sitting around doing nothing... and more people will back Hamas. It's a self-destructive policy that you will NEVER win!

First off, as I pointed out, it does produce results. The time when Israel had the most amount of suicide bombers were back in March 2002 - [i]before[i] the IDF went into the West Bank in April. Ignoring terrorism doesn't solve the problem - it makes it worse. Thats why when Clinton didn't hit back at Al Qaeda hard enough, their terror attacks only got bigger.

One way or another these terror groups have to be eliminated - be it by voluntary disarmming or by force. But coddling them won't produce results - well, not good results.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by panag

wake up , we dont stop them , but we stop people who have nothing to do here , ......

you can expect from someone who goes to iraq in 1940 and maries there to come back , even if he is allowed then still his wife's uncle should not be let in , ... those are the rules of immigration , and they tend to be the same in any other country , ...

What about their confiscated property?

as long as the jews who had to flee the arab world are not allowed to go back , ....

This sounds good, but it is flawed reasoning. Compare: "I should be allowed to do bad things, because other people are doing them."

but that is not the whole point , we do allow people to return , we just do allow them to return with family in the 20th degree , .... the american INS does not allow that neither , .... we do allow that if there is a humanitarian need , for example if no-one else is alive in between the person and the far away relative , ....

I'd like to see some independent verification of this.

you have posted in the past the same , yet you dont listen or answer agathon when it come to Israel , ....

Just because I'm not rabidly pro-Israel, doesn't mean I don't listen.

and as to the people who have doubts , the idf website and glz are far better news and events fact listing sites then most mayor worldwide newschannels , ....

Because they take your side. I see....

and we say the thruth , if we make a mistake , we say so , in public , ..... that can not be said about many of todays leading newspapers in the world , ....

It's a mistake to occupy these territories and deny the people who live there civil rights. It's a mistake to think that if you keep building settlements they will just go away. It's a mistake to think that flagrantly defying the world community will yield good results in the long term.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Edan

Yeah, I'll bet Bin Laden was desperate...

These people are sending out their own children. He wasn't.

[Whaleboy]

Perhaps you failed to mention the attacks the other day, meant to kill that hamas guy, but ended up killing something like 5 civilians, in spite of the "road map", the Americans condemning this?

Surely the Israelis have learned that when they attack the palestinians, they latter hit back, im not condoning it, but honestly, if what you tried hasnt worked (and force thus far hasnt), then try something else!!

Its pretty much what theyve expected, the Israeli govt should stop endangering the lives of its citizens. Its all very well to blame the Palestinians, but theyre mad for a reason, and while they shuoldnt be launching attacks, to be honest, we expect it of them these days.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

If Israel didn't go after the Hamas leader, you think they wouldn't attack Israel?

But you are giving them a justification to do so. More people are going to say, yeah, the Israelis are trying to kill us, so why are we just sitting around doing nothing... and more people will back Hamas. It's a self-destructive policy that you will NEVER win!

hi ,

try to expalin that to victims and survivors of terror , .....

try to say that to a firefighter in NY who was on ground zero , .....

you dont ever , ever negotiate with terror , you blow back as hard as you can , and believe me , in Israel thats the thing we are not doing , ....

have a nice day

[Edan]

Originally posted by Agathon


These people are sending out their own children. He wasn't.

Yeah, well, for $45,000...

[Panag]

Originally posted by elijah
Perhaps you failed to mention the attacks the other day, meant to kill that hamas guy, but ended up killing something like 5 civilians, in spite of the "road map", the Americans condemning this?

Surely the Israelis have learned that when they attack the palestinians, they latter hit back, im not condoning it, but honestly, if what you tried hasnt worked (and force thus far hasnt), then try something else!!

Its pretty much what theyve expected, the Israeli govt should stop endangering the lives of its citizens. Its all very well to blame the Palestinians, but theyre mad for a reason, and while they shuoldnt be launching attacks, to be honest, we expect it of them these days.

hi ,

"civilians" , .....

two of his bodyguards , ....

and when you house in your house or in your street a know terrorist , dont come and complain later that the police arrested you also , .....

not to mention that video tapes from the cobra's shows that they started to shoot in all directions on the ground , ...... since when does a cobra gunship fire 9 mm , ......

must have missed something last time i saw one , ...

have a nice day

[Imran Siddiqui]

it does produce results. The time when Israel had the most amount of suicide bombers were back in March 2002 - [i]before[i] the IDF went into the West Bank in April.

All they do then is lie low... while scores of Palestinians are converted to Hamas' course of action. Unless you plan on keeping the IDF there FOREVER, it won't work. As soon as the IDF leaves, you'll have tons of people wanting to join and kill the oppressors.

I've said before, Israel has two options, it can stay in the occupied territories with their armies forever, or it can help build a state and not send troops over whenever it feels like. That's basically it. Israel can't send over troops and then get tired and pull the troops back. All it does is make people mad and cause suicide bombings to continue ad infinitum. And I don't think Israelis want the IDF to permanently occupy the West Bank and Gaza.