Suicide Bombing in Jerusalem, 15+ Dead

[Ecthy]

Abbas seems a weak man, anyway. More like an alibi for both sides than anything else.

[Eli]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
You still sound like the 15 year old guy... who was ever talking about ignoring illegal shipments?

It comes with the support.

Had Israel taken over Arafat's airplane that was used to smuggle weapons, say, sometime in 1997, the Hamas would've started a terror wave and everyone would've blamed Israel for provoking them.

Of course the main priority has to be the elimination of the most evil cells.

"most evil"? What is that exactly?
Palestinian Policemen, trained by the CIA to fight terror are participating in the attacks on Israel, after they were given a freedom of action during the happy Oslo years. Shall we repeat the experiment again?

But I suppose it's futile to argue anyway. You're just waiting for the S-guy to turn up.

[Ecthy]

Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa. How does that sound?

As for the policemen to fight terror turning against I-land - that's a bummer. They're not supposed to do that

[Eli]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
In Germany, refugee camps can't be booby trapped because 1. there are no refugee camps, people live in cities here and 2. there are camps for asylum seekers, but it's not like they'd stay there longer than a day or 2 (no bull**** now, please) or they'd actually manage to get sh!t in there.

Which is irrelevant.

You argued that Israel should've used other methods to get the terrorists in Jenin*, I explained why it wasnt possible, answer to the point or admit you're wrong.


-* Mmany other cities were also as thoroughly checked, Jenin simply was the site of the major Israeli ****-up(13 dead soldiers in one battle) and the highest cocentration of Pal propaganda.

[Eli]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa. How does that sound?

As for the policemen to fight terror turning against I-land - that's a bummer. They're not supposed to do that

Then why shouldnt they be a target, together with the Hamas and the others?

[Winston]

Terrible.

And, as usual, terrorists cowardly targeting innocents directly. Why anyone would look upon deranged individuals like that as heroes and martyrs is beyond me. The hate among Palestinians who condone these acts must be monumental. One could fear that hatred on this scale will never disappear, whether a peace accord is reached or not. Truely depressing.

[Ecthy]

not every guy in such a camp is a terrorist. you figure out where they are and don't give a damn about all those wannabes. if they shoot at you, shoot back. no reason to crush every house? or even to enter them.

if they hide behind a window, blast them away. shouldn't eradicate all of the house.

and even if "civilians" with weapons and maybe even in wheelchairs for the western press hide also in the places that are actually important (ie facilities for explosives production etc.), they shouldn't make up to the amount of "civilian" casualties that we have seen. Unless you need a big blast to convince your population they should vote for you again

or, maybe, unless you think that destroying every lousy training camp etc. discourages your opponents in a satisfying way, which hardly happened, apart from the short term solution.

fight their infrastructure, not their kids. and hey, terrorist infrastructure != civilian infrastructure

tip for future debates - it's quite early to acuse the other side of being "wrong" before any actual statement was made. would you know where exactly I'd have to admit to being "wrong". hardly.

[Ecthy]

they should, the argument is about babies and pregnant women. oh, wait, once they had an explosive capsule in a pregnant woman

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'd just like to point out that Abbas has specifically said, that he would NOT engage other palestinian organizations by force. So, if he won't do it, who will?

Um... maybe because he doesn't want to start a civil war, which would be MORE devestating?

--

What did you guys expect? You go after a Hamas leader, and you don't think they'd retaliate? Come on! Every time you go after one of them, there will be a retaliation.. so don't act surprised when one does happen. You are just goading them on!

[Panag]

hi ,

16 down so far , .....

when are some people going to understand that they dont want peace , when , ......

have a nice day

[Shiber]

I'm not going to get into this argument, but I'd just like to point out that the operation that was laid out today by the IDF was not a retaliation to today's suicide bombing. Targeted assassinations are usually planned months ahead, and are executed when a window of opportunity opens up.
Also, AFAIK the IDF had abandoned the policy of violent retaliations long ago. At most, we disallow Palestinians living in a couple of cities to cross the border to Israel to go to work the following half a week or week.
Finally, the Hamas never retaliates to assassinations. For the past few years they have constantly worked out to fulfill all of their potential. There is rarely a noticeable increase in activity following assassinations, Military Intelligence says.

[Ecthy]

we're outnumbered!

retreat!

[Ecthy]

what must I see... emperor?

[Shiber]

Join a few demogames, you'll be deity in no time

[Eli]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
not every guy in such a camp is a terrorist. you figure out where they are and don't give a damn about all those wannabes. if they shoot at you, shoot back. no reason to crush every house? or even to enter them.

What if they are inside the house? Among the population, hiding?

When you shoot back you risk hitting someone else, someone innocent?

What if the only way to avoid losing tens of your men is avoiding the narrow alleys and going, literally, through the walls?

Give the choice, would you rather sacrifice tens of German soldiers, or tens of small brick walls?

if they hide behind a window, blast them away. shouldn't eradicate all of the house.

But they dont. They werent putting a fight, they were trying to hide or kill as many soldiers as possible when they were about to be found.

They werent standing near windows, waiting to be sniped at, they were hiding in the inner rooms.

and even if "civilians" with weapons and maybe even in wheelchairs for the western press hide also in the places that are actually important (ie facilities for explosives production etc.), they shouldn't make up to the amount of "civilian" casualties that we have seen. Unless you need a big blast to convince your population they should vote for you again

Huge population density, tens of soldiers, the need to check every house and house from reasons outlined above, 26 civilian casualties is nothing. Hell, the US Army asked the IDF to explain how we managed to do it.

or, maybe, unless you think that destroying every lousy training camp etc. discourages your opponents in a satisfying way, which hardly happened, apart from the short term solution.

The goal was to kill or arrest all terrorists and destroy the bomb factories and other facilites.
Short term solutions? A huge decrease in terror for more than a year now was definetely worth it.

Besides, a German shouldnt talk about solutions.

fight their infrastructure, not their kids. and hey, terrorist infrastructure != civilian infrastructure

Terrorist infrastructure is INSIDE the civilian infrastructure.

tip for future debates - it's quite early to acuse the other side of being "wrong" before any actual statement was made. would you know where exactly I'd have to admit to being "wrong". hardly.

Bla.