Suicide Bombing in Jerusalem, 15+ Dead

[Panag]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

it does produce results. The time when Israel had the most amount of suicide bombers were back in March 2002 - [i]before[i] the IDF went into the West Bank in April.

All they do then is lie low... while scores of Palestinians are converted to Hamas' course of action. Unless you plan on keeping the IDF there FOREVER, it won't work. As soon as the IDF leaves, you'll have tons of people wanting to join and kill the oppressors.

I've said before, Israel has two options, it can stay in the occupied territories with their armies forever, or it can help build a state and not send troops over whenever it feels like. That's basically it. Israel can't send over troops and then get tired and pull the troops back. All it does is make people mad and cause suicide bombings to continue ad infinitum. And I don't think Israelis want the IDF to permanently occupy the West Bank and Gaza.

hi ,

a couple notes with that , if the idf leaves , the PA should do what they are being payed to do , .....

and it does produce results

we withdraw each time and we sit over and over again at the peace table cause we believe in a solution , .....

thats why we pull out , ...... over and over again , .....

to many people in our last governments are afraid of going in in a classical miliarty sweep of three months , .....

have a nice day

[Eli]

Originally posted by D' Artagnan


I was talkin about the ppl who cmitted these murders relax

A French? Supporting Israel?

Satan is gonna need a coat soon.

[Panag]

hi ,

here is the official Israeli MFA statement ;

**At Least 15 Killed in Attack on Jerusalem Bus

At least 15 people were killed and some 70 wounded when a homicide bomber blew himself up on a bus in central Jerusalem on this afternoon, HA'ARETZ reported. Eight of the wounded were reported to be in serious condition, and 17 people were moderately wounded.
The Egged 14 bus was located near the "Klal" building on Jaffa Street, close to the intersection with King George Street. The bus was on its way from the Beit Hakerem neighborhood to Talpiot. U.S. President George W. Bush condemned the Jerusalem bus bombing in the "strongest possible terms."
In other news, Kassam rockets have begun falling again on the town of Sderot today. No one was injured in the latest Islamic Jihad barrage. Overnight Tuesday, there were exchanges of fire along the Israeli-Egyptian border between IDF soldiers and Palestinian terrorists.
Palestinians fired six Kassam rockets on Sderot on Tuesday. One of the rockets landed in an open field and the rest landed in city neighborhoods. Five Israelis were treated for shock. Three Palestinians responsible for firing the rockets on Tuesday were killed in an IDF strike on their vehicle.
Meanwhile, Egyptian Intelligence chief Omar Suleiman met with Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas and other Palestinian leaders in an attempt to secure a cease-fire. The Egyptians have tried in recent months to persuade terror groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad to halt attacks but have had little success.
According to THE JERUSALEM POST, security forces have arrested 10 Palestinians suspected of plotting homicide bombings since the three-way Aqaba Summit a week ago. One of the suspects is a 16-year-old from the West Bank town of Tulkarm, who was destined to carry out an attack in Netanya for Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.


have a nice day

[Whaleboy]

try to expalin that to victims and survivors of terror , .....

try to say that to a firefighter in NY who was on ground zero

Revenge? Punitive military action? Military action because it looks good politically? IT DOESNT WORK!!!

[Panag]

hi ,

and here is an other one thats rather intresting from an hour ago ;

**Abbas Appoints New Security Service Head

Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas's decided on Monday to appoint Ziad Haberich as the leader of Palestinian Authority's Preventive Security Service in the West Bank, THE JERUSALEM POST reported. A Palestinian Authority source explained that the appointment would grant Security Minister Muhammad Dahlan the necessary cooperation of the PSS members in the West Bank and might improve Abbas's position within Fatah. The PSS is the main body that will have to fight terrorism and face terror groups in case the PA does not reach an agreement with them.
A PA source close to Abbas said the decision might convince former chief Jibril Rajoub to return to a leadership position within the Palestinian security apparatus. Rajoub welcomed the Haberich appointment, which he reportedly helped to coordinate. Haberich, a Jenin resident, is known to be very close to Rajoub. The two men worked together for years while Rajoub headed the PSS. Rajoub, who was sacked by PA Chairman Yasser Arafat last year, has so far refused to take any security position.
PA sources said the US, Egypt, and Jordan will provide training to the PSS and other policemen whose job it will be to implement the PA's obligations under the road map.

have a nice day

[Edan]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui it can help build a state and not send troops over whenever it feels like.

Sure, provided that state actively works to end the terrorist groups. But Israel wont go along with the alternative of setting up a state that simply harbors terrorism - that is a disaster waiting to happen. Does the world really nead another Taliban Afghanistan?

[Panag]

Originally posted by elijah


Revenge? Punitive military action? Military action because it looks good politically? IT DOESNT WORK!!!

hi ,

sorry , but it does work , .....

and where is the word "revenge" posted , ... - and where is the word "punitive" posted , .......

dont draw the wrong conclusions

be carefull with that , its plain simple speculation and it does especially in this case not reflect the thruth ( the two words you have used ) !

have a nice day

[Panag]

Originally posted by Edan


Sure, provided that state actively works to end the terrorist groups. But Israel wont go along with the alternative of setting up a state that simply harbors terrorism - that is a disaster waiting to happen. Does the world really nead another Taliban Afghanistan?

hi ,

nope

but what you write seems to reflect exactly what some people in brussels at the eu want , ......

they actually want that to happen , for what ever stupid reason it might be , ....

have a nice day

[Imran Siddiqui]

provided that state actively works to end the terrorist groups. But Israel wont go along with the alternative of setting up a state that simply harbors terrorism - that is a disaster waiting to happen. Does the world really nead another Taliban Afghanistan?

The state will go a long way, IMO, to reducing terrorism. You won't get all of it away, no. But in talks for statehood, I believe there needs to be a cooperation between the IDF and the new Palestinian security force to work against terrorism. You give Abbas enough power (ie, a real state), and I think the results will be, on the whole, good.

AND, if Palestine as a state doesn't stop terrorism, it'll be much more moral (in the eyes of the world) to declare war and take them out then. Wartime killing will be seen in a better light than occupational killing. Right now it's just bald colonialism.

[Agathon]

If people started thinking less about who has been right or wrong in the past and started thinking about the easiest way to reach a solution, things might actually start happening.

But that is verboten to fanatics.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

provided that state actively works to end the terrorist groups. But Israel wont go along with the alternative of setting up a state that simply harbors terrorism - that is a disaster waiting to happen. Does the world really nead another Taliban Afghanistan?

The state will go a long way, IMO, to reducing terrorism. You won't get all of it away, no. But in talks for statehood, I believe there needs to be a cooperation between the IDF and the new Palestinian security force to work against terrorism. You give Abbas enough power (ie, a real state), and I think the results will be, on the whole, good.

AND, if Palestine as a state doesn't stop terrorism, it'll be much more moral (in the eyes of the world) to declare war and take them out then. Wartime killing will be seen in a better light than occupational killing. Right now it's just bald colonialism.

hi ,

huh , we where working side by side , untill the un and the eu started to interfere , .....

and it does has some problems , at day they are working with us , at night they shoot at us , .....

hamas , hez****la and to many other groups recieve active support from the pa and its security forces , ....

and they have infiltrated to many police districts , ....

have a nice day

[Panag]

Originally posted by Agathon
If people started thinking less about who has been right or wrong in the past and started thinking about the easiest way to reach a solution, things might actually start happening.

But that is verboten to fanatics.

hi ,

what do you think we are doing , ......

why do you think we are talking in jordan , .....

check out the road map thread , ......

have a nice day

[Edan]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The state will go a long way, IMO, to reducing terrorism.

No it won't. The terrorists will claim that they were the ones that got Israel to withdraw.

You give Abbas enough power (ie, a real state), and I think the results will be, on the whole, good.

Except Abbas doesn't have any power now since Arafat is the one guiding all his actions.

AND, if Palestine as a state doesn't stop terrorism, it'll be much more moral (in the eyes of the world) to declare war and take them out then. Wartime killing will be seen in a better light than occupational killing. Right now it's just bald colonialism.

Except that if that happens - and I'm fairly confident it will - we'll just end up back here, except under worse conditions. IMHO, I'd rather the right steps be taken, then going into a peace process that will fail and only make conditions worse.

what needs to happen is that Abbas has to get control out of the hands of Arafat and into his own, Jordan has to train Palestinian policemen, A rebuilding of the Palestinian economy has to happen - with accountability of where the money is being used, and Abbas has to work with Israel as Israel withdraws and take responsibility of the areas of withdrawl, Israel has to continue dismantling it's outposts, and Abbas will have to confront the terror groups - either disarm them by force or by negotiation. if that can happen, we'd be a lot closer to a lasting peace.

[Arrian]

If people started thinking less about who has been right or wrong in the past and started thinking about the easiest way to reach a solution, things might actually start happening.

But that is verboten to fanatics.

This qualifies as one of those rare occasions on which I totally agree with Agathon.

What's done is done. Israel exists and isn't going away. The Palestinian people exist, and clearly aren't going to vanish. Thus, compromise is the only way out.

If the leaders of each side really want peace, they should press ahead with peace negotiations and do their best to ignore the killing. Negotiate under fire, in other words.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

The terrorists will claim that they were the ones that got Israel to withdraw.

Yeah, so? Then they'll have to deal with statehood and not just try to get a state. A lot of their support for further attacks will be lessened because the people will ask for more services.

Except Abbas doesn't have any power now since Arafat is the one guiding all his actions.

If you actually have a state with real elections (which can be demanded in a peace settlement and gotten with little hassle), then Abbas WILL have power, if he wins.

Except that if that happens - and I'm fairly confident it will - we'll just end up back here, except under worse conditions.

I doubt that. It'll be a better situation in that case, IMO. You could do kinda what the US is trying in Iraq. Israel doesn't want to get involved in the creation of a Palestinian democracy, so naturally it won't happen unless there is external prodding (like Bush did to get Abbas in power).