What is up with the term "Neo-Conservative"

[Q Classic]

as i understand it, conservatives tend to also be more isolationist, while neoconservatives tend to be very engagement-oriented.

[St Leo]

Colonel Panic also chimes in:

Shortly after 9/11 leaders opposed to the neocon movement received letters containing anthrax -- and the perp has never been caught. Peculiarly, the strain of anthrax has been traced to the US military.



Extreme racism is evident throughout the neocon movement, and is evident in commentary by the likes of Strom Thermond and Trent Lott. It's also seen in the appointments of racist Federal Judges like Charles Pickering and Priscilla Owen. In fact "W" himself awarded a "lawman of the year" award to a law enforcement officer who blatently lied and put over 40 black people from Tulio Texas in jail on fabricated, unsubstantiated drug charges. Those people, while now deemed innocent are still in jail! And Priscilla Owen, who sits on the highest court in Texas can let these folks go, and won't. Of course, she is a nominee for th second highest court in the USA.



Much of what you see in the neocon movement is recycled lies from the old southern confederacy and KKK. It's just glossed up re-hash of the states rights, get-the-government-out-of-our-lives, the U.N. is an intrument of the anti-christ crap that's been around for years. Only back in the late 60s this movement realized those ideals were not as popular as they once were and they dressed up the old speak in pseudo-intellectualism. It's a type of redneck code. Within the neocon movement the crime is not sharing KKK beliefs, but breaking the code, as Trent Lott did earlier this year when he toasted Strom Thurmond.



Even the part of the fascist definition which speaks to centralization of government is going on -- under the cloak of getting the government out of our lives. Only, they are centralizing power through deregulation of industries, and expanded rights of corporations. Media is becoming centralized, we have more channels, but have fewer owners in the. Neocons deregulated farming, gas and electric companies, telecommunications, and airlines giving them unprededented power and promising incredible benefits, yet all of those efforts have proven to be incredible failures. Enron, Worldcom, and the cost-cut, couldn't-get-a-job-at-McDonald's airline security folks who failed this nation on 9/11. Neocon thought drove all of this.



In return, these industries support the neocon movement.



Oh, and the dictator part? Bush wasn't elected, he was appointed by a group of people who owed his father and political cronies a favor.



Neocons are very dangerous.

Ah, so that's who the neocons are. This is the first coherent definition that I've seen (and it manages to contain itself in a crazy rant).

That's taken from my journal.

"Neoconservatives believe in using American might to promote American ideals abroad."

Since when do American ideals include lack of electricity and lack of a democratically elected government?:P

[Imran Siddiqui]

Consider the Enron case. Consider Kyoto. Consider your words.

Are you really sure the Bush admin wants to spread US values and not just line their pockets?

You (and St. Leo, obviously) don't seem to understand what neo-conservatism is. Enron and Worldcom, and other domestic policies, have NOTHING to do with neo-conservatism. It is simply a foriegn policy ideology. They mostly don't care about domestic policy, and when they do, most of them (at least the founders of the movement) tend to be very moderate. Read the article I linked... the guy is pro-choice and much more accepting of the welfare state.

On this point, I think it has to be said that there is a definite split between conservatives and neoconservatives. If you listen to leading conservative mouthpieces like Limbaugh, the biggest sticking point between Cons and Neocons is what each believes is the appropriate size/role of government. I believe that you're right that neocons are move amenable to big government/nanny statism as long as it serves foreign policy goals whereas conservatives oppose big government on principal. There is a fight between the two factions in the administration for Bush's favor, and it appears that the Neocons have it.

I think you are probably correct. But the neocons only have it by a smidge. The conservatives still hold sway (and I believe Cheney is a conservative and not a neo-conservative).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Extreme racism is evident throughout the neocon movement, and is evident in commentary by the likes of Strom Thermond and Trent Lott.

Thurmond and Lott as neocons!

It just backs Timexwatch's definition A, that says the left is using the term as a boogyman without caring what it means .

[Buck Birdseed]

They're using the wrong "co" word, since what they're actually advocating pretty much amounts to Colonialism. The argumentation used by the British empire to justify spreading its power-base the world over is frighteningly similar... And equally badly hid the more wealth-based truth.

"Neo-Liberalism" is what you in America would call, um, "Non-Extreme Libertarianism with a distinct focus on propagating Free Market Economics". Which is a bit weird since it's the Americans - Friedrich Hayek, Milton Friedman and Robert Nozick among others - who invented it back in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

[St Leo]

You (and St. Leo, obviously) don't seem to understand what neo-conservatism is.

I would like to just point out that I was quoting a quote of a quote.

It just backs Timexwatch's definition A, that says the left is using the term as a boogyman without caring what it means .

Imran, you are a commie libertarian neonazi maoist neocon skinhead.:P

[Ben Kenobi]

Neo-conservatives are about as conservative, as neo-liberals are liberals.

Doesn't matter how you dress up a pig, the pig will still be a pig. Neo-conservatives are just Democrats huddling behind a frilly pink dress, hoping that nobody notices.

[Sharpe]

From Dictionary.com:

ne·o·con·ser·va·tism also ne·o-con·ser·va·tism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-kn-sûrv-tzm)
n.
An intellectual and political movement in favor of political, economic, and social conservatism that arose in opposition to the perceived liberalism of the 1960s: “The neo-conservatism of the 1980s is a replay of the New Conservatism of the 1950s, which was itself a replay of the New Era philosophy of the 1920s” (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.).

[Imran Siddiqui]

And like the definitions of socialism and communism, the dictionary is once again wrong .

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And like the definitions of socialism and communism, the dictionary is once again wrong .

"The dictionary is wrong. But I'm right. Seriously. I'm serious here. Why doesn't anyone believe me?"

[Ben Kenobi]

“The neo-conservatism of the 1980s"

Words change meaning in 20 years. Especially political terminology of this sort.

[Sharpe]

In Imran's defense, my Webster's Dictionary from 1992 says:

"A former liberal who has adopted conservative beliefs."

[Sava]

if I may add to this discussion, Imran has provided the best description, although chegitz was also on the right track with the whole "pro-corporate" thing. "Neo-Conservative" was coined also because the Neo-Cons are big-government... which is in contrast to the more libertarian style of less-government which used to be the mainstream conservative ideal. These Neo-Cons are also hypocritical in other ways. Ashcroft is supposedly "pro-life" but supports the death penalty and is against assisted suicide for the terminally ill. So basically its about being authoritarian rather than any real moral code. They often use morality as an excuse for executing their agenda. That's basically the method-operandum of Neo-Cons. They lie, twist and distort... and manipulate to get what they want... which is mostly driven by money i.e. corporate pork behind the Iraq war, etc.

[Elok]

Originally posted by St Leo
That's taken from my journal.

"Neoconservatives believe in using American might to promote American ideals abroad."

Since when do American ideals include lack of electricity and lack of a democratically elected government?:P

He said American ideals, not American privileges. And I think it's safe to say that many, if not most, Iraqis are thinking of holding the Basra Oil Party right about now. They also probably support very strongly the amendment that says we can't quarter soldiers in private homes without permission. And Lord knows they want payment for all their appropriated property.
So we have too spread American ideals. Nyeahnyeahnyeah.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ashcroft is supposedly "pro-life" but supports the death penalty and is against assisted suicide for the terminally ill.

Sava:

I fail to see why this position is hypocritical.
All prolifers also oppose assisted suicide.
Some oppose the death penalty, while others make a distinction for innocent human life.