Immerz and Che pretty much hit the nail on the head.
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What is up with the term "Neo-Conservative"
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The term Neoconservative is two things:
A) Leftist Boogeyman terminology. It's essentially a way of calling someone (mainly the Bush Administration) a fascist/corporate whore while avoiding the negative flak when someone compares them to a real fascist (i.e. Hitler/Stalin).
B) It's a strange strain of "activist" conservatism that calls for America to use its strength in the world to actively and blatently push for the strengthening of America's international power. Call it "Pax Americanization".
As far as I can tell, Neoconservatives don't have a domestic agenda aside from the standard conservative economic "pro-corporation" faire. I don't see most Neoconservatives as overly religious. I think that they are a faction within the administration concerned with foreign, not domestic policy.If you look around and think everyone else is an *******, you're the *******.
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Neo-cons aren't liberals mugged by reality, they are liberals who failed so miserably that they deicded to turn over to the dark side...
Old fashioned conservatives were much more isolationists vis a vi foreign policy, and much more "realist' centered.If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
monkspider: Che was trolling... and is wrong, btw.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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Old fashioned conservatives were much more isolationists vis a vi foreign policy, and much more "realist' centered.
Yep.
The difference is evident in the two Bush administrations. Bush I fought against Iraq for realist reasons. One, because of oil, Two, because backing an ally is good PR, Three, because it gives the US more power and a better 'in' in the middle east.
Bush II fought against Iraq to spread democracy and Western ideals.
As far as I can tell, Neoconservatives don't have a domestic agenda aside from the standard conservative economic "pro-corporation" faire. I don't see most Neoconservatives as overly religious. I think that they are a faction within the administration concerned with foreign, not domestic policy.
You are correct, though as former liberals (the founders of the movement) they are generally more pro-choice, pro-environment, and more tolerant of the welfare state.
Basically liberals should like them MORE than traditional conservatives instead of less. The neocons (if they were a force back then) would have agreed with you against Kissinger!
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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I'm not wrong, just incomplete.
No, you are totally wrong.
Conservatives are the ones more concerned with pro-corporate agendas. Neo-conservatives believe more spreading the ideals of democracy and freedom, etc.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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The problem is that neo-cons are activist, like old fashioned liebrals: that makes them a bigger threat than slowwitted old fashioned conservative dinosaurs.
And since they have no say in internal politics, who give a rats butt about them then?If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Conservatives are the ones more concerned with pro-corporate agendas. Neo-conservatives believe more spreading the ideals of democracy and freedom, etc.
Are you really sure the Bush admin wants to spread US values and not just line their pockets?Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
"The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Ah, this Wall Street Journal editorial makes my point as well:
"Neoconservatives believe in using American might to promote American ideals abroad."
Anyway...the part about the article.
So why do I, and others of my ilk, get tagged as "neocons"? Some of the labelers have obvious ulterior motives. Patrick Buchanan, for one, claims that his views represent the true faith of the American right. He wants to drive the neocon infidels from the temple (or, more accurately, from the church). Unfortunately for Mr. Buchanan, his version of conservatism--nativist, protectionist, isolationist--attracts few followers, as evidenced by his poor showings in Republican presidential primaries and the scant influence of his inaptly named magazine, the American Conservative. Buchananism isn't American conservatism as we understand it today. It's paleoconservatism, a poisonous brew that was last popular when Father Charles Coughlin, not Rush Limbaugh, was the leading conservative broadcaster in America.
When Buchananites toss around "neoconservative"--and cite names like Wolfowitz and Cohen--it sometimes sounds as if what they really mean is "Jewish conservative." This is a malicious slur on two levels. First, many of the leading neocons aren't Jewish; Jeane Kirkpatrick, Bill Bennett, Father John Neuhaus and Michael Novak aren't exactly menorah lighters. Second, support for Israel--a key tenet of neoconservatism--is hardly confined to Jews; its strongest constituency in America happens to be among evangelical Christians.
So is "neoconservatism" worthless as a political label? Not entirely. In social policy, it stands for a broad sympathy with a traditionalist agenda and a rejection of extreme libertarianism. Neocons have led the charge to combat some of the wilder excesses of academia and the arts. But there is hardly an orthodoxy laid down by Neocon Central. I, for one, am not eager to ban either abortion or cloning, two hot-button issues on the religious right. On economic matters, neocons--like pretty much all other Republicans, except for Mr. Buchanan and his five followers--embrace a laissez-faire line, though they are not as troubled by the size of the welfare state as libertarians are.Imram:
You are correct, though as former liberals (the founders of the movement) they are generally more pro-choice, pro-environment, and more tolerant of the welfare state.If you look around and think everyone else is an *******, you're the *******.
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